800-413-5613
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Comments about 8004135613 number:
Rating: +7
Meekster3 - 31 Jul 2007
Meekster3 - 31 Jul 2007Got a post card stating I won a free trip with confirmation # and 2 free tickets
Caller ID: 800-413-5613
Caller Type: Event Reminder / Notification
Reply
Rating: +6 Laura Gunderson - 31 Jul 2007
Laura Gunderson - 31 Jul 2007My name is Laura Gunderson and I'm a consumer affairs reporter with The Oregonian newspaper and I'd like to talk with you about your experience with Utopia Travel/Vacation Travel Club of Beaverton.
I can be reached by phone (wk 503-221-8378) or email, lauragunderson@news.oregonian.com weekdays until around 6:30 p.m.
Look forward to speaking with you and please feel free to forward my contact information to anyone else you know who has done business with Utopia.
Thanks so much,
Laura Gunderson
I can be reached by phone (wk 503-221-8378) or email, lauragunderson@news.oregonian.com weekdays until around 6:30 p.m.
Look forward to speaking with you and please feel free to forward my contact information to anyone else you know who has done business with Utopia.
Thanks so much,
Laura Gunderson
Rating: +7 Laura's Article in the Oregonian - 7 Mar 2008
Laura's Article in the Oregonian - 7 Mar 2008Travelers say club took them for ride
Complaints - A Beaverton firm is accused of bogus offers and threatening members
Friday, March 07, 2008LAURA GUNDERSON The Oregonian Staff
Utopian Travel's sales pitch -- free airline tickets in exchange for sitting through an evening presentation on a vacation club -- sounded familiar to many of the estimated 400 customers who paid an average of $4,500 to join.
But some said what came after surprised them. When customers who felt duped by the vouchers or memberships asked for refunds, they said, the Beaverton firm's operators refused to tear up contracts and return money -- even within a state-designated cooling-off period. Customers also said Utopian employees made threats of lawsuits and used unsettling language in response to complaints.
By Thursday, 22 Oregon consumers had complained to the Oregon attorney general's office, spokeswoman Jan Margosian said. The complaints, she said, assert that Utopian made bogus offers not only of free travel vouchers but also of airfare discounts and club travel savings. Margosian said the complaints also contend the firm categorically refused refunds.
"Everybody seems to think people in a business like ours are just making a ton of money," Wilson said. "But a business like ours is very expensive to operate. We just can't have people calling and changing their minds on a large purchase."
Wilson said she wrote much of the BBB rebuttal, but one of her employees must have written the stray-bullet line. Wilson said she was unaware of a Utopian representative threatening lawsuits.
Utopian sells memberships in Vacation Travel Club, a separate company headquartered in Michigan.
Scot Ender, who owns Vacation Travel Club, said he can't help Oregon customers get refunds. He said that he doesn't collect the large upfront membership fees and that his club makes its money from $169 annual dues.
Ender said he can't control the claims of his 14 associated distribution firms. He discourages them, he said, from touting cut-rate airfares or quoting percentages for club discounts.
"We offer substantial savings," said Ender, who put the membership of his 18-year-old club at 35,000.
Utopian Travel has solicited customers in Oregon and Washington through postcards exclaiming, "We've been going crazy trying to contact you," and promising free airfare or cruises for hearing the pitch.
Wilson said she and her 25 employees hold gatherings in various Beaverton locations to pitch Vacation Travel Club to about 80 people a week.
Customers said Utopian employees pitched club membership as a lifetime access to exclusive travel and lodging discounts ranging from 10 percent to 50 percent.
The state is investigating the operation that's done business in Beaverton for six months.
Most of the 14 customers interviewed by The Oregonian said they were too afraid to comment publicly.
They pointed to the alleged threats, along with online postings of news articles about a 2002 capital murder case in Arkansas. Utopian owner Janet Wilson and her husband, Troy James Wilson, were charged with murdering a descendant of the Marshall Field's department store founder, although charges were dropped against Janet Wilson and her husband was acquitted.
Customers also said they were rattled by the firm's response to at least one complaint.
"You drew your guns and fired before the dragon even showed his ugly head," went a response signed "Janet Wilson, President, Utopian Travel LLC," countering one recent complaint to the regional Better Business Bureau. "This is a good way for people to get wounded with stray bullets."
Janet Wilson, who operates Utopian with her husband, said she has many happy customers and doesn't pressure anyone. "We take pride in our business, and we have nothing to hide," Wilson said.
Wilson confirmed her business must provide customers with a cooling-off period. However, she said, she doesn't grant every refund -- even those requested within three days. Wilson said she takes requests on a case-by-case basis.
"Everybody seems to think people in a business like ours are just making a ton of money," Wilson said. "But a business like ours is very expensive to operate. We just can't have people calling and changing their minds on a large purchase."
Wilson said she wrote much of the BBB rebuttal, but one of her employees must have written the stray-bullet line. Wilson said she was unaware of a Utopian representative threatening lawsuits.
Utopian sells memberships in Vacation Travel Club, a separate company headquartered in Michigan.
Scot Ender, who owns Vacation Travel Club, said he can't help Oregon customers get refunds. He said that he doesn't collect the large upfront membership fees and that his club makes its money from $169 annual dues.
Ender said he can't control the claims of his 14 associated distribution firms. He discourages them, he said, from touting cut-rate airfares or quoting percentages for club discounts.
"We offer substantial savings," said Ender, who put the membership of his 18-year-old club at 35,000.
Utopian Travel has solicited customers in Oregon and Washington through postcards exclaiming, "We've been going crazy trying to contact you," and promising free airfare or cruises for hearing the pitch.
Wilson said she and her 25 employees hold gatherings in various Beaverton locations to pitch Vacation Travel Club to about 80 people a week.
Customers said Utopian employees pitched club membership as a lifetime access to exclusive travel and lodging discounts ranging from 10 percent to 50 percent.
Joel Glick of Southwest Portland didn't buy a membership, but he said he attended a pitch to obtain the vouchers. When they did not pan out, he said, he complained to the attorney general's office and Better Business Bureau.
In a response to Glick's complaint, Utopian's rebuttals, which the BBB invited, went to the bureau and Glick. One included the stray-bullet line. Glick posted the statements on several consumer Web sites.
The rebuttal says that because independent vendors supply the vouchers, Glick's complaint about Utopian was misguided.
"Your very first step in this effort, and the most rewarding for you, would have been to contact Utopian Travel first before you blew your whistle to the Attorney General and to the BBB," the rebuttal says. "You drew your guns and fired before the dragon even showed his ugly head. This is a good way for people to get wounded with stray bullets. I guess you did not understand that Utopian is not responsible for denying your gift."
In at least two cases, Oregon customers of Utopian said the firm's operators threatened defamation lawsuits when they spoke of filing official complaints.
"I think that's absolutely ridiculous," Wilson said. "That's not how we do business."
At least one of the consumer Web sites featured copies of newspaper articles from Arkansas about arrests of Troy and Janet Wilson in New Mexico on suspicion of capital murder in 2002.
Troy Wilson stood trial and was acquitted in the shooting death of Bettine DeDubnic, who had been letting the Wilsons live rent-free in Arkansas.
Wilson said the dismissed Arkansas allegations have no bearing on her business in Oregon.
"What the state of Arkansas did was a bad thing," Wilson said. "I feel that I am a very good person, an earnest person -- regardless of what you read."
Laura Gunderson: 503-221-8378; lauragunderson@ news.oregonian.com
Complaints - A Beaverton firm is accused of bogus offers and threatening members
Friday, March 07, 2008LAURA GUNDERSON The Oregonian Staff
Utopian Travel's sales pitch -- free airline tickets in exchange for sitting through an evening presentation on a vacation club -- sounded familiar to many of the estimated 400 customers who paid an average of $4,500 to join.
But some said what came after surprised them. When customers who felt duped by the vouchers or memberships asked for refunds, they said, the Beaverton firm's operators refused to tear up contracts and return money -- even within a state-designated cooling-off period. Customers also said Utopian employees made threats of lawsuits and used unsettling language in response to complaints.
By Thursday, 22 Oregon consumers had complained to the Oregon attorney general's office, spokeswoman Jan Margosian said. The complaints, she said, assert that Utopian made bogus offers not only of free travel vouchers but also of airfare discounts and club travel savings. Margosian said the complaints also contend the firm categorically refused refunds.
"Everybody seems to think people in a business like ours are just making a ton of money," Wilson said. "But a business like ours is very expensive to operate. We just can't have people calling and changing their minds on a large purchase."
Wilson said she wrote much of the BBB rebuttal, but one of her employees must have written the stray-bullet line. Wilson said she was unaware of a Utopian representative threatening lawsuits.
Utopian sells memberships in Vacation Travel Club, a separate company headquartered in Michigan.
Scot Ender, who owns Vacation Travel Club, said he can't help Oregon customers get refunds. He said that he doesn't collect the large upfront membership fees and that his club makes its money from $169 annual dues.
Ender said he can't control the claims of his 14 associated distribution firms. He discourages them, he said, from touting cut-rate airfares or quoting percentages for club discounts.
"We offer substantial savings," said Ender, who put the membership of his 18-year-old club at 35,000.
Utopian Travel has solicited customers in Oregon and Washington through postcards exclaiming, "We've been going crazy trying to contact you," and promising free airfare or cruises for hearing the pitch.
Wilson said she and her 25 employees hold gatherings in various Beaverton locations to pitch Vacation Travel Club to about 80 people a week.
Customers said Utopian employees pitched club membership as a lifetime access to exclusive travel and lodging discounts ranging from 10 percent to 50 percent.
The state is investigating the operation that's done business in Beaverton for six months.
Most of the 14 customers interviewed by The Oregonian said they were too afraid to comment publicly.
They pointed to the alleged threats, along with online postings of news articles about a 2002 capital murder case in Arkansas. Utopian owner Janet Wilson and her husband, Troy James Wilson, were charged with murdering a descendant of the Marshall Field's department store founder, although charges were dropped against Janet Wilson and her husband was acquitted.
Customers also said they were rattled by the firm's response to at least one complaint.
"You drew your guns and fired before the dragon even showed his ugly head," went a response signed "Janet Wilson, President, Utopian Travel LLC," countering one recent complaint to the regional Better Business Bureau. "This is a good way for people to get wounded with stray bullets."
Janet Wilson, who operates Utopian with her husband, said she has many happy customers and doesn't pressure anyone. "We take pride in our business, and we have nothing to hide," Wilson said.
Wilson confirmed her business must provide customers with a cooling-off period. However, she said, she doesn't grant every refund -- even those requested within three days. Wilson said she takes requests on a case-by-case basis.
"Everybody seems to think people in a business like ours are just making a ton of money," Wilson said. "But a business like ours is very expensive to operate. We just can't have people calling and changing their minds on a large purchase."
Wilson said she wrote much of the BBB rebuttal, but one of her employees must have written the stray-bullet line. Wilson said she was unaware of a Utopian representative threatening lawsuits.
Utopian sells memberships in Vacation Travel Club, a separate company headquartered in Michigan.
Scot Ender, who owns Vacation Travel Club, said he can't help Oregon customers get refunds. He said that he doesn't collect the large upfront membership fees and that his club makes its money from $169 annual dues.
Ender said he can't control the claims of his 14 associated distribution firms. He discourages them, he said, from touting cut-rate airfares or quoting percentages for club discounts.
"We offer substantial savings," said Ender, who put the membership of his 18-year-old club at 35,000.
Utopian Travel has solicited customers in Oregon and Washington through postcards exclaiming, "We've been going crazy trying to contact you," and promising free airfare or cruises for hearing the pitch.
Wilson said she and her 25 employees hold gatherings in various Beaverton locations to pitch Vacation Travel Club to about 80 people a week.
Customers said Utopian employees pitched club membership as a lifetime access to exclusive travel and lodging discounts ranging from 10 percent to 50 percent.
Joel Glick of Southwest Portland didn't buy a membership, but he said he attended a pitch to obtain the vouchers. When they did not pan out, he said, he complained to the attorney general's office and Better Business Bureau.
In a response to Glick's complaint, Utopian's rebuttals, which the BBB invited, went to the bureau and Glick. One included the stray-bullet line. Glick posted the statements on several consumer Web sites.
The rebuttal says that because independent vendors supply the vouchers, Glick's complaint about Utopian was misguided.
"Your very first step in this effort, and the most rewarding for you, would have been to contact Utopian Travel first before you blew your whistle to the Attorney General and to the BBB," the rebuttal says. "You drew your guns and fired before the dragon even showed his ugly head. This is a good way for people to get wounded with stray bullets. I guess you did not understand that Utopian is not responsible for denying your gift."
In at least two cases, Oregon customers of Utopian said the firm's operators threatened defamation lawsuits when they spoke of filing official complaints.
"I think that's absolutely ridiculous," Wilson said. "That's not how we do business."
At least one of the consumer Web sites featured copies of newspaper articles from Arkansas about arrests of Troy and Janet Wilson in New Mexico on suspicion of capital murder in 2002.
Troy Wilson stood trial and was acquitted in the shooting death of Bettine DeDubnic, who had been letting the Wilsons live rent-free in Arkansas.
Wilson said the dismissed Arkansas allegations have no bearing on her business in Oregon.
"What the state of Arkansas did was a bad thing," Wilson said. "I feel that I am a very good person, an earnest person -- regardless of what you read."
Laura Gunderson: 503-221-8378; lauragunderson@ news.oregonian.com
Rating: +4 My Opinion - 7 Mar 2008
My Opinion - 7 Mar 2008Janet Wilson states to the Oregonian that one of her employees must have written the statement to JG with the quote about "This is a good way for people to get wounded with stray bullets.". However, on January 24th JG posted a letter in which Janet Wilson's name is written on the letter to him as the composer of this letter on 11-27-07. You can read this letter on 800 notes.
Rating: +3 Another TV news story re: Utopian Travel - 9 Mar 2008
Another TV news story re: Utopian Travel - 9 Mar 2008Customers Say Travel Agency Offered Phony Vacation Deals
http://www.kptv.com/news/15531400/detail.html
http://www.kptv.com/news/15531400/detail.html
Rating: +1 Another article from The Oregonian - 9 Mar 2008
Another article from The Oregonian - 9 Mar 2008Take time when under pressure of sales pitch
Sunday, March 09, 2008
Vacations are supposed to be relaxing.
Yet the trip many local folks have taken with a Beaverton travel agency has been anything but. The Oregonian reported Friday that 22 consumers who plunked down thousands of dollars to join a discount vacation club had complained to the state attorney general's office to say Utopian Travel hadn't delivered.
Utopian owner Janet Wilson, who sells memberships to Michigan-based Vacation Travel Club, said unhappy customers simply didn't understand what they were buying.
Wilson said there are many bad eggs in the business -- though she insisted she wasn't one of them. In a quick online search of the term "travel scams," The Desk dug up dozens nationwide over the past 20 years at least.
Questionable travel firms can be tough for states to track down, said Jan Margosian, spokeswoman for the attorney general's office. Such businesses and sometimes their owners, she said, often go by several names with financial ties to several states.
The office said it is investigating the firm, along with a similar and possibly related business, Suncoast Vacations, which also has sold discount travel memberships in the Portland area.
High-pressure tactics
Several states have taken careful aim at the industry.
In December 2006, Missouri Attorney General Jay Nixon won a state-record $1.9 million court order against Vacation Travel, a firm that, like Utopian Travel, sold memberships to Vacation Travel Club. Nixon said the company used high-pressure sales tactics, misrepresented the club's savings, consistently refused refunds and failed to inform consumers about a three-day cooling-off period when they could pull out.
Oregon consumers made similar accusations about Utopian, according to the state attorney general's office.
Missouri busted another firm selling Vacation Travel Club memberships in August 2004. Branson, Mo.-based Vacation Services of America was required to pay $10,371 in restitution for refusing to cancel memberships for customers who requested refunds within three days.
The feds also track travel-related scams.
In "Operation Travel Unravel," the Federal Trade Commission secured a $5 million settlement from Florida-based Med Resorts International and five related companies. The commission said the company misled consumers to believe they could "travel worldwide whenever and wherever the consumers chose."
Read the fine print
So, listen to The Desk here, folks. Slow down.
In considering major purchases in high-pressure situations, don't be afraid to ask for time -- 24 hours, let's say -- to read the contract. The fine print in Utopian's contract, for instance, spelled out that it did not guarantee exclusive discounts for all airlines or hotels.
Utopian owner Wilson said that for an average membership of $4,500, the travel club provides deep discounts for resorts and cruises at certain locations at particular times, especially trips scheduled within 45 days of departure.
Such an outline does not jibe with pitches that the nearly two dozen consumers who've contacted The Oregonian said they heard.
"That's the opposite of what was sold to us," said Paulette Poulson of Longview, Wash., who expected discounts at any time on travel options throughout the world.
Poulson said she spent $8,000 on a membership and tried for two weeks to schedule a 24-day European cruise. She finally gave up on Vacation Travel Club and booked the trip through Costco Wholesale in two hours.
Poulson and others also worry about future problems. Many Utopian customers provided credit card and bank account numbers, home addresses, copies of their driver's licenses and partial Social Security numbers.
"I'm just so bothered about this," Poulson said. "We might as well have taken our $8,000 and thrown it into the river." For federal and state consumer tips on how to research travel clubs, go to blog.oregonlive.com/complaintdesk.
Laura Gunderson
Sunday, March 09, 2008
Vacations are supposed to be relaxing.
Yet the trip many local folks have taken with a Beaverton travel agency has been anything but. The Oregonian reported Friday that 22 consumers who plunked down thousands of dollars to join a discount vacation club had complained to the state attorney general's office to say Utopian Travel hadn't delivered.
Utopian owner Janet Wilson, who sells memberships to Michigan-based Vacation Travel Club, said unhappy customers simply didn't understand what they were buying.
Wilson said there are many bad eggs in the business -- though she insisted she wasn't one of them. In a quick online search of the term "travel scams," The Desk dug up dozens nationwide over the past 20 years at least.
Questionable travel firms can be tough for states to track down, said Jan Margosian, spokeswoman for the attorney general's office. Such businesses and sometimes their owners, she said, often go by several names with financial ties to several states.
The office said it is investigating the firm, along with a similar and possibly related business, Suncoast Vacations, which also has sold discount travel memberships in the Portland area.
High-pressure tactics
Several states have taken careful aim at the industry.
In December 2006, Missouri Attorney General Jay Nixon won a state-record $1.9 million court order against Vacation Travel, a firm that, like Utopian Travel, sold memberships to Vacation Travel Club. Nixon said the company used high-pressure sales tactics, misrepresented the club's savings, consistently refused refunds and failed to inform consumers about a three-day cooling-off period when they could pull out.
Oregon consumers made similar accusations about Utopian, according to the state attorney general's office.
Missouri busted another firm selling Vacation Travel Club memberships in August 2004. Branson, Mo.-based Vacation Services of America was required to pay $10,371 in restitution for refusing to cancel memberships for customers who requested refunds within three days.
The feds also track travel-related scams.
In "Operation Travel Unravel," the Federal Trade Commission secured a $5 million settlement from Florida-based Med Resorts International and five related companies. The commission said the company misled consumers to believe they could "travel worldwide whenever and wherever the consumers chose."
Read the fine print
So, listen to The Desk here, folks. Slow down.
In considering major purchases in high-pressure situations, don't be afraid to ask for time -- 24 hours, let's say -- to read the contract. The fine print in Utopian's contract, for instance, spelled out that it did not guarantee exclusive discounts for all airlines or hotels.
Utopian owner Wilson said that for an average membership of $4,500, the travel club provides deep discounts for resorts and cruises at certain locations at particular times, especially trips scheduled within 45 days of departure.
Such an outline does not jibe with pitches that the nearly two dozen consumers who've contacted The Oregonian said they heard.
"That's the opposite of what was sold to us," said Paulette Poulson of Longview, Wash., who expected discounts at any time on travel options throughout the world.
Poulson said she spent $8,000 on a membership and tried for two weeks to schedule a 24-day European cruise. She finally gave up on Vacation Travel Club and booked the trip through Costco Wholesale in two hours.
Poulson and others also worry about future problems. Many Utopian customers provided credit card and bank account numbers, home addresses, copies of their driver's licenses and partial Social Security numbers.
"I'm just so bothered about this," Poulson said. "We might as well have taken our $8,000 and thrown it into the river." For federal and state consumer tips on how to research travel clubs, go to blog.oregonlive.com/complaintdesk.
Laura Gunderson
Rating: +3 Utopian Travel exposed on Portland TV - 7 Mar 2008
Utopian Travel exposed on Portland TV - 7 Mar 2008Please check out this expose on Utopian Travel that ran on KATU in Portland, OR.
http://www.katu.com/news/specialreports/16372721.html
Travel club's 'exclusive' deals don't exist, many say
By Thom Jensen and KATU Web Staff
Video BEAVERTON, Ore. - Did you get one of those 'travel itineraries' in the mail promising free airline tickets? Lots of people did and many are saying they were duped into giving away thousands of dollars for exclusive travel bargains that don't exist.
The travel vouchers have logos that look like they come from the airlines but don't be fooled. Everyone who gets one of the itineraries is told that if they attend a Utopian travel seminar at a business center in Beaverton, they will get two free airline tickets.
However, while there many are persuaded into buying travel club memberships that cost anywhere from $3,500 to $12,000 with promises of free cruises and exclusive member bargains.
Once Larry and Nila Butler got home from Utopian's seminar, they said they realized the promises did not exist and tried to cancel their credit card payment. But by then it was too late, the payment had already gone through and the money was gone.
Customers like Ross Villegas paid thousands of dollars for lifelong bargains. But when KATU News logged onto Utopian's Web site using Villegas' customer ID and password (with his permission), we did not see any real deals, like exclusive hotel bargains.
In fact, the prices were $20 to $30 more on Utopian's Web site than what we found on free Web sites. And the same was true for airfare, cruises and tropical resort packages. You can find the same or better deals on Web sites like Orbitz, Travelocity, Hotels.com and Priceline.
We found the owner of Utopian Travel, Janet Wilson, at the company's Beaverton office and she swore several times she would sit down and give us answers for the customers who felt they were scammed.
After we never heard back, we returned to look for her. We were confronted by her son, Bryan, a Utopian salesman who said she was in but still had no time to talk to us despite her promises that she would answer our questions.
At one point, we finally did catch Wilson in the doorway and she said she would reimburse anyone who wanted their money back.
However, those who bought the expensive packages aren't so sure that will happen. The Butlers received a letter from the company stating they could not obtain a refund and that refunds were not offered simply due to buyer's remorse.
Under Oregon law, refunds are supposed to be available within three days of purchase. The Butlers applied for a refund within one day and were still denied.
The Attorney General's office in Oregon has received more than 20 complaints against Utopian and is investigating. Meanwhile, Utopian's attorney said owner Janet Wilson will not be answering any of our questions.
The company has had problems in other states. The Attorney General offices in Indiana and Wisconsin also investigated complaints against Utopian's vacation travel club and fined them. In Missouri, where Wilson used to work in the vacation travel club's home office, the company received a record $1.9 million fine.
http://www.katu.com/news/specialreports/16372721.html
Travel club's 'exclusive' deals don't exist, many say
By Thom Jensen and KATU Web Staff
Video BEAVERTON, Ore. - Did you get one of those 'travel itineraries' in the mail promising free airline tickets? Lots of people did and many are saying they were duped into giving away thousands of dollars for exclusive travel bargains that don't exist.
The travel vouchers have logos that look like they come from the airlines but don't be fooled. Everyone who gets one of the itineraries is told that if they attend a Utopian travel seminar at a business center in Beaverton, they will get two free airline tickets.
However, while there many are persuaded into buying travel club memberships that cost anywhere from $3,500 to $12,000 with promises of free cruises and exclusive member bargains.
Once Larry and Nila Butler got home from Utopian's seminar, they said they realized the promises did not exist and tried to cancel their credit card payment. But by then it was too late, the payment had already gone through and the money was gone.
Customers like Ross Villegas paid thousands of dollars for lifelong bargains. But when KATU News logged onto Utopian's Web site using Villegas' customer ID and password (with his permission), we did not see any real deals, like exclusive hotel bargains.
In fact, the prices were $20 to $30 more on Utopian's Web site than what we found on free Web sites. And the same was true for airfare, cruises and tropical resort packages. You can find the same or better deals on Web sites like Orbitz, Travelocity, Hotels.com and Priceline.
We found the owner of Utopian Travel, Janet Wilson, at the company's Beaverton office and she swore several times she would sit down and give us answers for the customers who felt they were scammed.
After we never heard back, we returned to look for her. We were confronted by her son, Bryan, a Utopian salesman who said she was in but still had no time to talk to us despite her promises that she would answer our questions.
At one point, we finally did catch Wilson in the doorway and she said she would reimburse anyone who wanted their money back.
However, those who bought the expensive packages aren't so sure that will happen. The Butlers received a letter from the company stating they could not obtain a refund and that refunds were not offered simply due to buyer's remorse.
Under Oregon law, refunds are supposed to be available within three days of purchase. The Butlers applied for a refund within one day and were still denied.
The Attorney General's office in Oregon has received more than 20 complaints against Utopian and is investigating. Meanwhile, Utopian's attorney said owner Janet Wilson will not be answering any of our questions.
The company has had problems in other states. The Attorney General offices in Indiana and Wisconsin also investigated complaints against Utopian's vacation travel club and fined them. In Missouri, where Wilson used to work in the vacation travel club's home office, the company received a record $1.9 million fine.
Rating: +3 More KATU NEWS - 8 Mar 2008
More KATU NEWS - 8 Mar 2008Rating: +2 Utopian's 15 minutes of infamy - 10 Mar 2008
Utopian's 15 minutes of infamy - 10 Mar 2008Beaverton's Utopian Travel accused of scam
Here's one more, this time from KGW in Portland, OR:
http://www.kgw.com/video/?z=y&nvid=225094
Here's one more, this time from KGW in Portland, OR:
http://www.kgw.com/video/?z=y&nvid=225094
Rating: 0 junior - 1 Aug 2007
junior - 1 Aug 2007i got a post card for 2 tickets anywhere in theusa
Rating: 0 kolabear - 2 Aug 2007
kolabear - 2 Aug 2007got Postcard also
Rating: 0 scott - 4 Aug 2007
scott - 4 Aug 2007It is a promotional for some travel agency, they said I had to drive to Port clinton for a 90 min presentation
Rating: -10 happy camper - 7 Feb 2008
happy camper - 7 Feb 2008I got my certificate redeemed with no problem. These comments are crazy and look to me like someone has a personal vendetta against these people. My husband and I joined the club in November and really like it. Be a wise consumer and if you don't want a product don't buy it. As for the rest of us, enjoy it and ignore the nay sayers.
Rating: +7 Charlie - 8 Feb 2008
Charlie - 8 Feb 2008To all consumers. Don't you find it odd that all of the sudden there are many happy consumers that are writing all at the same time frame. This is once again, the employees trying to scam the consumers. BEWARE, they have many tricks up there sleeve and they are scared that if you pursue your consumer complaints with the AG,BBB,Consumer Protection Agency, and the news stations that they might get run out of town and loose all of the thousands if not millions of dollars they are scamming you out of.
Rating: +3 Me - 8 Feb 2008
Me - 8 Feb 2008Yes, I find it odd all of a sudden. Definately way more negitive comments than positive comments & I believe all the negative ones, believe me!! You can tell right off it's there employers. It's so ovious it's sickening!! I talked with a staff member yesterday telling them there is NO deals with them & I can do better on-line with the other .com sites. We have been taken, no deals as I compared prices, I am very unhappy, we want out of there phony deal/contract with a full refund & that we are not pursueing the 2 airline tickets from Certs. They said they have a lawyer working on that part right now against Certs. Really? daaaaaaa
Rating: +4 Me - 8 Feb 2008
Me - 8 Feb 2008OH!! Those phony free airline tickets from Certs are a Scam from the very beginning & 'U' already knew that & I bet they are still sending them out in the mail at present to rob more comsumers. They set us up to be robbed of our hard earned money The airline tickets are what they USE to get us in there to hear there lying presentation with misleading prices & promises. They need to be STOPPED!!!
Rating: +3 Skeptical - 8 Feb 2008
Skeptical - 8 Feb 2008I would like the details regarding exactly how you redeemed your Certs certificate. When did you send it in? Where did you leave from? Where did you go? Which airline did you fly on? What times did the flights depart? How much notice did Certs give you before they sent you your tickets? How much did it end up costing you? I have looked at this and many other message boards on the Internet, and I have never encountered a single other person that has successfully redeemed a Certs travel certificate! I find your posting very suspicious since in was made almost simultaneously with two other postings that defend Utopian Travel.
Did you redeem the certificate for the free rental car successfully as well? Let's hear the details about that one!
Did you redeem the certificate for the free rental car successfully as well? Let's hear the details about that one!
Rating: -12 Socrates - 11 Apr 2008
Socrates - 11 Apr 2008The reason you don't hear many of the positive feedback, idiot, is because they are probably out vacationing and it never crossed their mind to waste their time on the internet. Learn how the mind works before you "pretend" to use yours. People thrive on negativity. When something bad happens you tell anyone who will listen. When something good happens, you might tell a handful. It's human nature. Pick up a book, get off of the internet, and do something productive with your life . . . if it's not too late.
Rating: +12 Opinionator - 12 Apr 2008
Opinionator - 12 Apr 2008Why do you say to get off the internet? You're on here! Protecting consumers is a very productive task. What kind of value system do you have that helps your fellow man? We don't feel that we are being negative. We are helping each other.
Rating: -13 Mike - 12 Apr 2008
Mike - 12 Apr 2008I worked for Utopian Travel and I'm really sorry for what has happened here on this website. It is shameful. They are a good company with some awesome deals and it isn't a scam. You people are reprehensible and disgusting. Grown, adult people who sign an all sales final agreement then throw up a smokescreen of lies to conceal that fact - I hope you lose your membership and your money, too. You deserve it.
Rating: +11 Cooling Off - 12 Apr 2008
Cooling Off - 12 Apr 2008Care to comment on the cooling off period? Let me refresh your memory. Complaints were filed because comsumers did not get their money back even though they have that right under Federal Law.
The Cooling-Off Rule: When and How to Cancel a Sale The Federal Trade Commission's (FTC's) Cooling-Off Rule gives you three days to cancel purchases of $25 or more. Under the Cooling-Off Rule, your right to cancel for a full refund extends until midnight of the third business day after the sale.
The Cooling-Off Rule: When and How to Cancel a Sale The Federal Trade Commission's (FTC's) Cooling-Off Rule gives you three days to cancel purchases of $25 or more. Under the Cooling-Off Rule, your right to cancel for a full refund extends until midnight of the third business day after the sale.
Rating: -7 can't believe al you peopl - 4 May 2008
can't believe al you peopl - 4 May 2008The FTC's cooling off rule is nothing more than a guideline for states to follow, and many states are implementing that guideline into law. Oregon has no such law. Go on the Attorney Generals website, do a search for cooling off rule, and read it. Then searh for such things as 3-day rescission and VMSI marketing systems. You will find that Utopian Travel is currently legal in requiring people to sign an all-sales-final agreement and in refusing to refund money. They are totally within current law. How can you fault them for doing what is within their legal right to do so? Grow up, people, and own up to your resposibilities in life.
Rating: +7 Concerned Consuner - 4 May 2008
Concerned Consuner - 4 May 2008Not only is the "cooling off rule" a federal law, it is recognized by the Oregon Department of Justice. We will let the courts decide our rights as consumers. Not the Wilson Clan.
Rating: +3 Exactly how much did it cost you? - 8 Feb 2008
Exactly how much did it cost you? - 8 Feb 2008Dear Happy Camper, Love 2 Fly and Upstate,
If you are not, in fact, employees of Utopian Travel, why not tell us exactly how much it cost you to join the Vacation Travel Club, and what you've received for your money? Then, if readers of 800Notes think they might want to spend that much money, they can attend the Wilson's presentation as informed consumers. If you won't tell us how much your membership cost you, then you are undoubtedly on the Utopian Travel payroll.
If you are not, in fact, employees of Utopian Travel, why not tell us exactly how much it cost you to join the Vacation Travel Club, and what you've received for your money? Then, if readers of 800Notes think they might want to spend that much money, they can attend the Wilson's presentation as informed consumers. If you won't tell us how much your membership cost you, then you are undoubtedly on the Utopian Travel payroll.
Rating: -7 private - 4 May 2008
private - 4 May 2008Yes, I am a member and paid exactly $4,453.95 over six months ago. In this time period I have used this progam for one amazing packaged vacation (a week in Costa Rica for $679 with airfare, hotels amd meals) and three condo weeks since Costa Rica. (the hot deals.)
And they were incredible bargains. I stayed a week in the Bahamas at a very, very nice resort for $325 total. It is funny to me that the only people complaining here are the people who NEVER have used the program. Isn't it funny to you people that you NEVER hear from any dissatisfied VETERAN members that use this program constantly? No, I am not about to give my name and get involved in this silliness. And I could care less if you think I am an employee or a friend. I got my membership and I'd buy it again BECAUSE I HAVE USED IT AND I KNOW WHAT IT CAN DO. By the way, isn't it funny to you that every single Utoian Employee uses this program every time they travel? I have gotten to know the Utopian crew pretty well by now and despite the crap I read here, they are a bunch of very nice people who sell a genuine product if you are at least smart enough to use it. That's all from me. Don't ask for an interview, you news whores, and I couldn't care less about any of your coments made in complete ignorance.
And they were incredible bargains. I stayed a week in the Bahamas at a very, very nice resort for $325 total. It is funny to me that the only people complaining here are the people who NEVER have used the program. Isn't it funny to you people that you NEVER hear from any dissatisfied VETERAN members that use this program constantly? No, I am not about to give my name and get involved in this silliness. And I could care less if you think I am an employee or a friend. I got my membership and I'd buy it again BECAUSE I HAVE USED IT AND I KNOW WHAT IT CAN DO. By the way, isn't it funny to you that every single Utoian Employee uses this program every time they travel? I have gotten to know the Utopian crew pretty well by now and despite the crap I read here, they are a bunch of very nice people who sell a genuine product if you are at least smart enough to use it. That's all from me. Don't ask for an interview, you news whores, and I couldn't care less about any of your coments made in complete ignorance.
Rating: +6 Concerned Consumer - 4 May 2008
Concerned Consumer - 4 May 2008Do they really expect people to buy their product? They speak to consumers in an unprofessional manner.
Rating: +6 CC - 4 May 2008
CC - 4 May 2008Why are you private? If you are a satisfied customer, why don't you share your real name so that we can verify your statement?
Rating: +6 Vacationaire - 4 May 2008
Vacationaire - 4 May 2008I feel bad for these people that spent all that money for a vacation club membership. My wife and I rent condo weeks off the internet without having to make an upfront purchase. The way the economy is going not many people will make the decision to give these types of companies their money. It's as if the laws of nature are working in favor of the consumer if you care to see it that way.
Rating: +3 I don't believe you - 6 May 2008
I don't believe you - 6 May 2008According to the owner of Vacation Travel Club, the only money VTC receives is your annual membership fee. Therefore, the $4,453.95 you paid to the Wilsons in no way made all those so-called "incredible bargains" possible. Seems to me that if VTC were really legit, it would simply advertise on the Internet, charge its members an annual $200 membership fee, and allow people like you to keep your $4,453.95! Or do you really think that $4,453.95 is a fair commission on a service worth a couple hundred dollars a year (if that much)? If you are not an employee of Utopian Travel (which I believe you are), you are a obviously a not-very-wise consumer with extremely bad manners (calling dissatisfied consumers "whores").
Rating: +5 We are Janet Wilson's worst nightmare! - 5 Feb 2008
We are Janet Wilson's worst nightmare! - 5 Feb 2008I can't believe it! I received another postcard today from "Utopian Travel" with the same phony offer for free airline tickets and a rental car. This time the airline featured on the postcard is "AirTran". The postcard still says "We've been going crazy trying to contact you!" Maybe we finally have succeeded in driving Janet and Troy Wilson crazy! Now it's time to drive them out of Beaverton!
If you received this same postcard recently, please read the following several pages of postings before you waste your time attending their sales presentation. Someone suggested calling the number, making a reservation and not showing up. If they call you and ask why, tell them they didn't meet your personal "terms and conditions", so you voided the agreement. Sounds like a good suggestion to me.
If you received this same postcard recently, please read the following several pages of postings before you waste your time attending their sales presentation. Someone suggested calling the number, making a reservation and not showing up. If they call you and ask why, tell them they didn't meet your personal "terms and conditions", so you voided the agreement. Sounds like a good suggestion to me.
Rating: +4 Joe Smith - 6 Mar 2008
Joe Smith - 6 Mar 2008Hi, My name is Joe Smith, I'm the Business Reporter for KGW. I'd like to talk with you regarding your experience with Utopian Travel. My number is
503-705-6325.
Thanks,
Joe Smith
503-705-6325.
Thanks,
Joe Smith
Rating: +1 Guy from San Mateo - 5 Sep 2007
Guy from San Mateo - 5 Sep 2007I got this same card today and it was titled Vacation Invitation - United. Made it looks like it's from United but they carefully didn't confirm that in the wording. It's always "we", "our" but never identified themselves as "United".
From the badly worded message, I figured it is a scam and found this page by searching their 800 phone number.
From the badly worded message, I figured it is a scam and found this page by searching their 800 phone number.
Rating: +3 California - 15 Nov 2007
California - 15 Nov 2007WOW, I just got the same card today in the mail and I'm in California. This sh*t is spreading across the states; be careful everyone these guys come out before the holidays and make it crappy for everyone.
Rating: -10 Jennifer - 20 Nov 2007
Jennifer - 20 Nov 2007I got one too! It was a great presentation,and I joined the club because I love to travel and they have way better deals than the internet can offer! Thank you Utopian Travel. Jamie was awesome and very helpful.
Rating: +7 Steve - 4 Jan 2008
Steve - 4 Jan 2008You obviously work for these people!
Rating: +10 Warning - 14 Jan 2008
Warning - 14 Jan 2008Jennifer,
You obviously are collusion with Utopian Travel, Beaverton!
Or you work for them!
That business is a scam and is complicit with the marketing companies
such as Certs and VIP Travel Reservations, Inc.--those businesses that
bait you into sending in Money Order for $50 with your certificate to
redeem your free airline tickets, with all these maze of instructions
and conditions, wanting you to fail you can invalidate the offer.
All of them prey upon the gullible consumer. Jamie and Janet Wilson
(they introduced themselves to us as mother and son) are scam artists.
I hope to see these two people's faces on the television screen,
with the news of them being investigated for scams and for unethical
business practices.
You obviously are collusion with Utopian Travel, Beaverton!
Or you work for them!
That business is a scam and is complicit with the marketing companies
such as Certs and VIP Travel Reservations, Inc.--those businesses that
bait you into sending in Money Order for $50 with your certificate to
redeem your free airline tickets, with all these maze of instructions
and conditions, wanting you to fail you can invalidate the offer.
All of them prey upon the gullible consumer. Jamie and Janet Wilson
(they introduced themselves to us as mother and son) are scam artists.
I hope to see these two people's faces on the television screen,
with the news of them being investigated for scams and for unethical
business practices.
Rating: +6 Nancy - 28 Jan 2008
Nancy - 28 Jan 2008Hi - My husband & I went to the Utopian Travel club presentation- Beaverton, Oregon after receiving there post card 'Going crazy trying to reach you' Jan 5 2008. We listened & in good faith/trust in their presentation signed there contract to join. We are so sick & unhappy with the results after we got our permanent ID card in the mail 5 days later & I researched there prices on-line & there 800 # I did call, also comparing them to other .com web sites. The .com web sites were less expensive than Utopian Travel Club. We are sick about this & not sure what to do next? We feel that we just threw away our hard earned 4,500 dollars plus : ( My husband is almost 70 years old & not in good heatlh & neither am I. We felt this was a good opportunity during our retirement period to be able to travel at rates we could afford. If we had known that there would have been no money saved we would have never joined this club. Is their anyone out their that signed the contract that also feels they were taken advantage of? I didn't do my reseach on this company until after the fact. We were stupid yes, to be scammed in the first place. Looking forward to any thoughts on this. Thank you - Nancy
Rating: +6 JG - 28 Jan 2008
JG - 28 Jan 2008Hi Nancy,
So sorry to hear your story. Here's my advice:
1) Contact Utopian Travel and ask for your money back:
Utopian Travel , LLC
1315 NW 185th Ave. #113
Beaverton, OR 97006
(503) 729-3993
2) If Utopian Travel refuses to refund your money, let the company know that you will be filing complaints with the Better Business Bureau and the Oregon Department of Justice.
Oregon Department of Justice: consumer.hotline@state.or.us. You might also send a copy directly to Enforcement Officer Sally O'Neil, who has been assigned to at least one previous complaint against this company: sally.oneil@doj.state.or.us
Utopian Travel isn't a member of the BBB, but filing a complaint can't hurt:
BBB of Alaska, Oregon and Western Washington
PO Box 1000
DuPont, WA 98327
www.theBBB.org
Best of luck
JG
So sorry to hear your story. Here's my advice:
1) Contact Utopian Travel and ask for your money back:
Utopian Travel , LLC
1315 NW 185th Ave. #113
Beaverton, OR 97006
(503) 729-3993
2) If Utopian Travel refuses to refund your money, let the company know that you will be filing complaints with the Better Business Bureau and the Oregon Department of Justice.
Oregon Department of Justice: consumer.hotline@state.or.us. You might also send a copy directly to Enforcement Officer Sally O'Neil, who has been assigned to at least one previous complaint against this company: sally.oneil@doj.state.or.us
Utopian Travel isn't a member of the BBB, but filing a complaint can't hurt:
BBB of Alaska, Oregon and Western Washington
PO Box 1000
DuPont, WA 98327
www.theBBB.org
Best of luck
JG
Rating: +6 Lynn - 29 Jan 2008
Lynn - 29 Jan 2008Hello, My husband and I have also been taken! If we don't get our money back right away, we will be out in front of this building where they plan on scamming on other. We will let all know, if fact we will be inviting the news station to be there with us. We will keep you posted as to when.
Rating: +5 Nancy - 29 Jan 2008
Nancy - 29 Jan 2008Hi Lynn - Was so happy to hear your comment : ) Wished I could give you my e-mail address & phone #. WE are not alone, many have been scammed & feel no way out, but we have to try. Let us know when WE will be standing with you in front of there building 'U' with the news crews like KGW, KATU, KPTV. My husband wanted to let the news & everyone know how they scamm innocent people who went to there presentation in good faith & trust & took the bait. My husband did talk with J.W. last week & asked for our money back. J.W. said 'That won't happen'. So we are taking action at present with the Attorney General (OR.), BBB, a Lawyer who handles Fraud recommended by the Oregon State Bar & some other places. We will not go down with out trying our best to get our money back. Why would we buy into this travel club unless we felt we were going to get wonderful discounts? What a Joke, I can get way better deals on line. My research little too late & I feel like an idiot. We just handed our hard earned money to J.W. for nothing. My husband is so stressed over this he can't sleep, I'm worried about him. Just sick inside about this.
Rating: +5 Lynn - 30 Jan 2008
Lynn - 30 Jan 2008Nancy, Are you in Portland, Oregon.? These people aren't taking my money and getting away with it. I'm working on a plan now.
Rating: +5 Nancy - 30 Jan 2008
Nancy - 30 Jan 2008Lynn - Yes, We live close to Portland and Beaverton kind of. Were you scammed with the airline tickets? WE are afraid to finish that part out as I have read so many nice folks had a hard time & most didn't receive. Utopian took $4,500 of our money for absolutely nothing in return, no savings at all with them. Their 90 minute presentation was full of mis-represetation & mis-leading prices in fact you don't get a deal at all. They are thefts, crooks & liars all of them who work there especally J.W. The thing is you don't catch on until after signing, leaving & days later when you get your permananent ID card like us five days later, then you are able to get on their www.vacationtravelclub.com web site & actually check & compare prices. They even had the gall in their 90 minute presentation with a movie that they can get discounts because they don't go through .com web sites - WILL, they are a .com web site too - such liars. They are slick & know just how to snow people, that's what their paid to do - to be FRAUDS/Scammers.
Rating: +6 Lynn - 30 Jan 2008
Lynn - 30 Jan 2008We were also scammed. I have contacted Utopian Travel at 503-729-3883. I am going to expose them. I will show up and inform people of their scam. I am also calling the new stations. This is just a start. So far we have sent $175.00 to these people. All we have received is a letter asking for more money. These people aren't getting off so easy.
Rating: +6 A Friend - 30 Jan 2008
A Friend - 30 Jan 2008If you're serious about contacting the press, I suggest that you find a good investigative reporter, maybe one from a local weekly like "Willamette Week". The reason is that (at least) some of An Observer's assertions (23 & 24 Jan 2008) about Janet and Troy Wilson and their associates seem to check out. Please read the newspaper articles reprinted below.
Rating: +3 RxF - 10 Mar 2008
RxF - 10 Mar 2008We attended the Utopian sales pitch in early January. Their sales pitch sounded to good to be true. Consequently, we declined membership, however we were issued the vouchers for air travel and car rental. In early February we sent in the travel request form along with $100 requesting flights between Portland and Boston for dates in October. On March 10 I called CERTS to ask if they'd accepted our travel plans for October. They simply replied that we'd have to wait until 30-45 days prior to our requested October travel date!
In late Januarty we mailed the car rental activation form along with $75 to VIP Travel Reservations, Inc. We were supposed to receive a vacation planning package including a reservation request form. We have not received anything from them!
We are filing complaints with the BBB and the Attorney General's office. We are also more than happy to share our frustrations with anyone wishing to hear them. Furthermore, we are available to join others at their Beaverton location along with the local television, radio, and newspaper personel.
In late Januarty we mailed the car rental activation form along with $75 to VIP Travel Reservations, Inc. We were supposed to receive a vacation planning package including a reservation request form. We have not received anything from them!
We are filing complaints with the BBB and the Attorney General's office. We are also more than happy to share our frustrations with anyone wishing to hear them. Furthermore, we are available to join others at their Beaverton location along with the local television, radio, and newspaper personel.
Rating: +4 Joel G. - 10 Mar 2008
Joel G. - 10 Mar 2008Dear RxF,
As I recall, the convoluted "terms and conditions" of the Certs Certificate do require you to wait until 30-45 days before your travel dates before they issue your tickets. However, I have searched numerous Internet message boards to find one single person who has successfully redeemed one of their certificates. (I don't include the posting by the Wilsons themselves) Certs always seems to come up with one pretext or another to void the certificate.
You're the first people I know to even attempt to redeem the car rental certificate. Please keep us posted regarding your progress or lack of progress on both fronts.
As I recall, the convoluted "terms and conditions" of the Certs Certificate do require you to wait until 30-45 days before your travel dates before they issue your tickets. However, I have searched numerous Internet message boards to find one single person who has successfully redeemed one of their certificates. (I don't include the posting by the Wilsons themselves) Certs always seems to come up with one pretext or another to void the certificate.
You're the first people I know to even attempt to redeem the car rental certificate. Please keep us posted regarding your progress or lack of progress on both fronts.
Rating: -10 high flier - 12 Apr 2008
high flier - 12 Apr 2008hey, ol' Glick - still got a Glick in my throat - I used the airfare cert and it worked for me. It also worked for Janet Wilson, Troy Wilson, Jamie Wilson and Bryan Wilson. Maybe that is the key - you gotta be a Wilson - not a Glick
Rating: +9 Certs - 13 Apr 2008
Certs - 13 Apr 2008Certs are approximately $15.00 each. They are designed to be complicated and they hope you just give up and throw it in the trash. IF by chance you make it through the Cert companies obstacle course, usually you will hear something like..."That's NOT available."
Rating: +9 Joel G. - 17 Apr 2008
Joel G. - 17 Apr 2008Hey High Flier,
What's this fetish you've got for my last name? It's no secret. My last name was published in an Oregonian article that was posted on this page.
If 1) "you gotta be a Wilson" for the Certs certificate to work and 2) you claim "it worked for me," then I guess you must be a Wilson.
So Mr. or Ms. Wilson, I'd still like to hear the details regarding how and when you successfully redeemed your Certs certificate!
What's this fetish you've got for my last name? It's no secret. My last name was published in an Oregonian article that was posted on this page.
If 1) "you gotta be a Wilson" for the Certs certificate to work and 2) you claim "it worked for me," then I guess you must be a Wilson.
So Mr. or Ms. Wilson, I'd still like to hear the details regarding how and when you successfully redeemed your Certs certificate!
Rating: +2 RxF - 11 Mar 2008
RxF - 11 Mar 2008This morning I called VIP Travel Reservations, Inc. I told them that we'd mailed in our voucher's activation form and $75 for a car rental 1 1/2 months ago, however we hadn't received anything back from them. According to their terms and conditions, they state that UPON RECEIPT OF THE ACTIVATION FORM, they will mail out a vacation planning package which will include a reservation request form. The lady who answered the phone at VIP today said THEY'D MAILED OUT THE VACATION PLANNING PACKAGE ON FEB 1, and added DIDN'T YOU GET IT!!! She stated our address to me over the phone from their records and it was exactly correct. I find it very interesting that they claim to have mailed it out on Feb 1. We have been watching for it daily, and would have obviously noted it in our mail. I doubt very much that it was ever mailed! She said she'd mail another out to us today.
Rating: -10 Lynn buster - 12 Apr 2008
Lynn buster - 12 Apr 2008Gotcha Lynn - Utopian Travel refunded your money and then you cancelled your tickets - that makes you a liar and a scammer. This is hilarious. I love it. You doubled your money and then have the gall to complain. You are a sanctimonious pile of crap and worse than Utopian could ever hope to be.
Rating: +4 Traci - 17 Feb 2008
Traci - 17 Feb 2008I am thankful that I didn't fall for this scam. Yesterday 2/16/08 we went to their presentation we got a guy named Loa and I think a guy named Andrew he had a thick southern accent and said his mom owned the company. I was very leary from the start and I wouldn't purchase and so they gave me a 72 hours sales pending which I didn't sign a thing so I think I'm safe there plus they have no credit card or anything on me. But while I was there I saw a nice couple falling for it and getting out the credit card to purchase I just wished I had the guts to say stop!!! go home and investigate on the computer before you make this big mistake. I really wish people would go there and greet people before they go into the presentation to stop them because they are a big scan. To the people who are victims get together and call the tv stations and if they get enough people bombarding them they might do something. Traci
Rating: +3 Think about it - 25 Mar 2008
Think about it - 25 Mar 2008Well think about it, the "nice couple getting out the credit card"
might be working for the scammers to "pose as someone buying into it"
so others will see and be encouraged to do the same?
Kind of like the traveling religion healing acts where the same
people get "healed" over and over as part of the act.
you never know whats going on out there.
The "nice couple buying it" could be part of the act.
might be working for the scammers to "pose as someone buying into it"
so others will see and be encouraged to do the same?
Kind of like the traveling religion healing acts where the same
people get "healed" over and over as part of the act.
you never know whats going on out there.
The "nice couple buying it" could be part of the act.
Rating: +4 truth is legal - 25 Mar 2008
truth is legal - 25 Mar 2008There is nothing illegal about simply stating the truth,
does not matter if someone does not like it.
The truth is the truth, like it or not.
does not matter if someone does not like it.
The truth is the truth, like it or not.
Rating: +1 advisor - 28 Jan 2008
advisor - 28 Jan 2008Please be careful about using peoples' full names in association with potentially libelous or slanderous postings and there are two right here. You are not anonymous on this website. 800notes maintains IP records for every posting and those records are not protected from court actions. Some of you need to listen up here before you get yourself in serious trouble
Rating: +6 Me - 28 Jan 2008
Me - 28 Jan 2008You sound like we are the ones in the wrong - BALONEY!! WE are the comsumers that are supposed to be protected not taken advantage of. WE are the ones who have been Scammed, our money stolen by mis-representaion & mis-leading people in these phony so called Travel Clubs!
Rating: +3 not gonna get suckered again!!! - 29 Jan 2008
not gonna get suckered again!!! - 29 Jan 2008I have to agree with you and advisor only because it is a dangerous world out there especially with all of these frauds and such..."IF IT SOUNDS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE.....THEN IT'S NOT!!! QUESTION THE PRODUCT AND/OR THE PERSON SELLING IT" look at all the facts about what they are selling cause most likely it's a scam...I had to learn the difficult way :*(
Rating: +7 Bring it on d-bag - 18 Mar 2008
Bring it on d-bag - 18 Mar 2008Folks, don't let these jerks intimidate you with big words like libel and defamation. Truth is a complete defense to a claim of libel or defamation. That is, you can't be liable if you are stating or publishing the truth. Let these scammers have the truth tested in court --the last place they want to appear.
Oh, and by the way, your IP Address is protected from being released. The scammers have to initiate legal action and then serve the website owners with a subpoena to have the address released.
Oh, and by the way, your IP Address is protected from being released. The scammers have to initiate legal action and then serve the website owners with a subpoena to have the address released.
Rating: +4 True - 19 Mar 2008
True - 19 Mar 2008Truth is an absolute defense in the United States as well as in the common law jurisdictions of Canada. In some other countries it is also necessary to show a benefit to the public good in having the information brought to light.
Rating: +16 JG - 2 Dec 2007
JG - 2 Dec 2007Please read the following before responding to any postcard offering you two free airline tickets....
Mr. James Wilson
Utopian Travel
1315 185th Avenue #113
Beaverton, OR. 97006
November 17, 2007
Dear Mr. Wilson:
In September, 2007, I received a postcard in the mail that had a Northwest Airlines logo "NWA" and stated “In celebration of our anniversary...we've been going crazy trying to contact you! Call us immediately for details at toll free 1-800-582-6054. The postcard stated "You will receive at your request two round trip airfares to anywhere in the US!" as well as a free rental care for one week. The postcard also read "This is not a solicitation for a time share. *Certain restrictions apply. Travel Provider: Utopian Travel 1315 185th Avenue #113 in Beaverton, OR. 97006.”
I called the 800 number, and made an appointment for my wife and I to attend a presentation at 8:00 pm on September 19, 2007. At the presentation, we watched a PowerPoint presentation about the Vacation Travel Club, which I learned is a company based in Benton Harbor, Michigan. The cost of joining this club was approximately $8000. Following the presentation my wife and I informed a saleswoman that we were not interested in joining this club. Through my own investigation, I have found that the managers of Utopian Travel are James Wilson (417) 230-0997 and Andrew Loraditch (417) 593-5626.
Before we left, we were given two certificates, one from VIP Travel Reservations for the rental car and the other from CERTS, Inc. for two free airline tickets. We did not redeem the car rental certificate, but we did attempt to redeem the airline certificate, which is the subject of this complaint.
The Wings Across America Vacation Getaway certificate had very specific terms and conditions for its use. My wife and I made every good-faith effort to meet each one of these terms and conditions exactly as required.
1)Within 30 days of the issue date, we sent, by Certified Mail, the Activation Form to CERTS Inc. (424 East Central Blvd., #413, Orlando FL 32801) along with copies of our passports.
2)CERTS, Inc. then sent us a Travel Request Form. On October 25, 2007, we returned the Travel Request Form (See attachment B) with a Postal Money Order for $100, along with our requested destination and departure airports (Denver, CO and Portland, OR respectively), and two travel date choices, with departure dates 30 days apart (June 17, 2008 and July 17, 2008).
3)On November 13, 2007 I received a check in mailbox. The check was from CERTS, Inc. in the amount of $100. It arrived with no explanation or other documents.
4)On November 14, 2007, I called the office of CERTS, Inc. (866) 292-0099. I spoke to a representative. I gave him my name and certificate serial number (Wings22-37298) and asked him why CERTS had sent me the check. He informed me that the reason was that I had not met the terms and conditions of the certificate because I “did not have 30 between departure dates.” I told him that I had counted the days the very carefully and that there are 30 days from June 17 to July 17. He told me that was incorrect, and that there are only 29 days between June 17 and July 17.
I told him that most educated and reasonable people would interpret “30 days between” and “30 days from” to mean the same thing. I did not, and do not concede that their interpretation was correct and mine incorrect. However, I asked him why a CERTS representative didn’t just call me and ask me if I would change one of the two dates by one day, given that they had my telephone number. He said that CERTS does not call people who make mistakes filling out their Travel Request Forms. Then I asked if I could resubmit a copy of my Travel Request Form, with another Postal Money Order, given that the expiration date on my certificate is 12/9/2007. He said that would be impossible; the certificate is now void because I had not met the terms and conditions.
I asked the representative if I could speak to his manager. He told me that the manager is named Seneca (though I’m not certain of the spelling), and that he is in the office from 11 am to 2 pm ET every day. I attempted to call Seneca three times, but each time I was placed on hold for 15 minutes. I am a classroom teacher who teaches students every morning, so I can not spend time waiting on hold.
I demand the following remedy from Utopian Travel and CERTS Inc.:
Two airline tickets from Portland, Oregon to Denver, Colorado leaving June 17, 2007 and returning July 1, 2008 or leaving July 17 and returning July 31. If CERTS Inc. prefers other travel dates, immediately before or after our requested dates, we will accept them. Upon request, we will send CERTS Inc. another Postal Money Order and a photocopy of our original Reservation Request Form.
Sincerely,
J____ G_______
Cc’s: Better Business Bureau, Central Florida
Better Business Bureau, Western Oregon
CERTS, Inc.
Office of Attorney General Bill McCollum, State of Florida
_________________________________________________________________________
Utopian Travel, LLC
1315 NW 185 Ave. #113
Beaverton, OR 97006
503-729-3993
Mr. J_________ G______
Dear Mr. G_______, November 19, 2007
I am in receipt of your letter dated November 17, in which you complain about the treatment you suffered at the hands of a marketing company named Certs, Inc., in the State of Florida, I believe. Let me briefly clarify my position in all this so you won’t think me one of your tormentors.
This business requires many warm bodies weekly in our presentation. In this country marketing companies have evolved to fill the needs of companies such as mine. I find a marketing company and I pay them for every person they send to my presentation. I paid somewhere close to $400 to have you sit through our presentation whether you purchase or not. I am a consumer, just as you are, in this regard. I use several different marketing companies, under the theory of never putting all my eggs in one basket. All I do is purchase their product (which is you) and I do not know these companies until someone like yourself makes me aware of them.
I totally sympathize with your plight. Your letter angered me greatly and I will send copies of the letter to the marketing company responsible that used Certs, Inc., to lure you in with an impossible-to-attain gift. I absolutely stand against such marketing tactics as you have described. You have my permission to use this letter in any future correspondence with anyone.
Please be aware, however, that your demand for satisfaction as directed to Utopian Travel is misplaced. We have given out over seven hundred of these Certs you speak of and we carefully explain to everyone to follow the directions implicitly. You are the third complaint we have had. My normal response is to help people obtain their gift, but you seem more interested in getting me in trouble with the Attorney General and Better Business Bureau. I honestly don’t feel compelled to help people who set out to harm me, as you have done here.
Sincerely,
Janet Wilson,
Utopian Travel, LLC
_________________________________________________________________________
November 27, 2007
Johanna Moorer
Consumer Affairs
Better Business Bureau
1600 S. Grant Street
Longwood, FL 32750
Re: Joel G______, Case#: 63A2-9DC&
Dear Ms. Moorer,
Certs, Inc. is a promotional incentive company that works with companies such as Utopian Travel. Certs, Inc. creates, distributes, and processes many types of certificates. Utopian Travel purchases our certificates and distributes and markets them to their liking. In return, Certs, Inc. fulfills the certificate if and only when the Terms & Conditions are followed.
The program that Mr. G____ has participated in provides two adults with round-trip airfare from the major airport nearest their home to any other major city in the continental United States. In order to participate in this program, users are required to fill out the activation form and send it to Certs, Inc. along with a copy of a valid photo ID for each traveler. Once Certs, Inc. receives these items, a Travel Request Form is issued. With this form, users are to indicate where they would like to travel to and from; along with two separate travel dates they wish to depart on. They are also to include a US Postal Money order in the amount of $100 to pay for taxes and surcharges associated with the flight.
Certs, Inc. received Mr. G____’s activation form and ID’s on September 29, 2007. Mr. G____ was then issued a Travel Request Form. Certs, Inc. received Mr. G_____’s filled out Travel Request form and $100 deposit on October 29, 2007. The reason that Mr. G_____ received his $100 back is because Mr. G_____ failed to adhere to one of the original terms and conditions associated with this offer. Both the original activation form and the Travel Request Form state that your first and second departure date choices must have at least 30 days between them. Mr. G_____’s first departure date choice was June 17 and his second departure date choice was July 17. There are only 29 days separating these two dates and therefore, Mr. G_____’s offer was voided. As the letter that Mr. G_____ received states, “We are unable to process your travel request. . . Please do not resubmit any documents to re-instate your certificate. The offer remains void.” [This is untrue. No letter of explanation about why my $100 had been refunded was ever sent to me. I only received their "explanation", or pretext, when I called CERTS Inc. JG]
Certs, Inc. goes to great lengths to make our terms and conditions simple and easy to understand. We have very few restrictions, but we do require adherence to be able to serve all participants who are in compliance. We are sorry that Mr. G_____ did not choose to follow all of our terms and conditions of this program; however, there is nothing that can be done.
Thank you for your time and consideration in this matter.
Sincerely,
Lauren Gallo
Certs, Inc.
Mr. James Wilson
Utopian Travel
1315 185th Avenue #113
Beaverton, OR. 97006
November 17, 2007
Dear Mr. Wilson:
In September, 2007, I received a postcard in the mail that had a Northwest Airlines logo "NWA" and stated “In celebration of our anniversary...we've been going crazy trying to contact you! Call us immediately for details at toll free 1-800-582-6054. The postcard stated "You will receive at your request two round trip airfares to anywhere in the US!" as well as a free rental care for one week. The postcard also read "This is not a solicitation for a time share. *Certain restrictions apply. Travel Provider: Utopian Travel 1315 185th Avenue #113 in Beaverton, OR. 97006.”
I called the 800 number, and made an appointment for my wife and I to attend a presentation at 8:00 pm on September 19, 2007. At the presentation, we watched a PowerPoint presentation about the Vacation Travel Club, which I learned is a company based in Benton Harbor, Michigan. The cost of joining this club was approximately $8000. Following the presentation my wife and I informed a saleswoman that we were not interested in joining this club. Through my own investigation, I have found that the managers of Utopian Travel are James Wilson (417) 230-0997 and Andrew Loraditch (417) 593-5626.
Before we left, we were given two certificates, one from VIP Travel Reservations for the rental car and the other from CERTS, Inc. for two free airline tickets. We did not redeem the car rental certificate, but we did attempt to redeem the airline certificate, which is the subject of this complaint.
The Wings Across America Vacation Getaway certificate had very specific terms and conditions for its use. My wife and I made every good-faith effort to meet each one of these terms and conditions exactly as required.
1)Within 30 days of the issue date, we sent, by Certified Mail, the Activation Form to CERTS Inc. (424 East Central Blvd., #413, Orlando FL 32801) along with copies of our passports.
2)CERTS, Inc. then sent us a Travel Request Form. On October 25, 2007, we returned the Travel Request Form (See attachment B) with a Postal Money Order for $100, along with our requested destination and departure airports (Denver, CO and Portland, OR respectively), and two travel date choices, with departure dates 30 days apart (June 17, 2008 and July 17, 2008).
3)On November 13, 2007 I received a check in mailbox. The check was from CERTS, Inc. in the amount of $100. It arrived with no explanation or other documents.
4)On November 14, 2007, I called the office of CERTS, Inc. (866) 292-0099. I spoke to a representative. I gave him my name and certificate serial number (Wings22-37298) and asked him why CERTS had sent me the check. He informed me that the reason was that I had not met the terms and conditions of the certificate because I “did not have 30 between departure dates.” I told him that I had counted the days the very carefully and that there are 30 days from June 17 to July 17. He told me that was incorrect, and that there are only 29 days between June 17 and July 17.
I told him that most educated and reasonable people would interpret “30 days between” and “30 days from” to mean the same thing. I did not, and do not concede that their interpretation was correct and mine incorrect. However, I asked him why a CERTS representative didn’t just call me and ask me if I would change one of the two dates by one day, given that they had my telephone number. He said that CERTS does not call people who make mistakes filling out their Travel Request Forms. Then I asked if I could resubmit a copy of my Travel Request Form, with another Postal Money Order, given that the expiration date on my certificate is 12/9/2007. He said that would be impossible; the certificate is now void because I had not met the terms and conditions.
I asked the representative if I could speak to his manager. He told me that the manager is named Seneca (though I’m not certain of the spelling), and that he is in the office from 11 am to 2 pm ET every day. I attempted to call Seneca three times, but each time I was placed on hold for 15 minutes. I am a classroom teacher who teaches students every morning, so I can not spend time waiting on hold.
I demand the following remedy from Utopian Travel and CERTS Inc.:
Two airline tickets from Portland, Oregon to Denver, Colorado leaving June 17, 2007 and returning July 1, 2008 or leaving July 17 and returning July 31. If CERTS Inc. prefers other travel dates, immediately before or after our requested dates, we will accept them. Upon request, we will send CERTS Inc. another Postal Money Order and a photocopy of our original Reservation Request Form.
Sincerely,
J____ G_______
Cc’s: Better Business Bureau, Central Florida
Better Business Bureau, Western Oregon
CERTS, Inc.
Office of Attorney General Bill McCollum, State of Florida
_________________________________________________________________________
Utopian Travel, LLC
1315 NW 185 Ave. #113
Beaverton, OR 97006
503-729-3993
Mr. J_________ G______
Dear Mr. G_______, November 19, 2007
I am in receipt of your letter dated November 17, in which you complain about the treatment you suffered at the hands of a marketing company named Certs, Inc., in the State of Florida, I believe. Let me briefly clarify my position in all this so you won’t think me one of your tormentors.
This business requires many warm bodies weekly in our presentation. In this country marketing companies have evolved to fill the needs of companies such as mine. I find a marketing company and I pay them for every person they send to my presentation. I paid somewhere close to $400 to have you sit through our presentation whether you purchase or not. I am a consumer, just as you are, in this regard. I use several different marketing companies, under the theory of never putting all my eggs in one basket. All I do is purchase their product (which is you) and I do not know these companies until someone like yourself makes me aware of them.
I totally sympathize with your plight. Your letter angered me greatly and I will send copies of the letter to the marketing company responsible that used Certs, Inc., to lure you in with an impossible-to-attain gift. I absolutely stand against such marketing tactics as you have described. You have my permission to use this letter in any future correspondence with anyone.
Please be aware, however, that your demand for satisfaction as directed to Utopian Travel is misplaced. We have given out over seven hundred of these Certs you speak of and we carefully explain to everyone to follow the directions implicitly. You are the third complaint we have had. My normal response is to help people obtain their gift, but you seem more interested in getting me in trouble with the Attorney General and Better Business Bureau. I honestly don’t feel compelled to help people who set out to harm me, as you have done here.
Sincerely,
Janet Wilson,
Utopian Travel, LLC
_________________________________________________________________________
November 27, 2007
Johanna Moorer
Consumer Affairs
Better Business Bureau
1600 S. Grant Street
Longwood, FL 32750
Re: Joel G______, Case#: 63A2-9DC&
Dear Ms. Moorer,
Certs, Inc. is a promotional incentive company that works with companies such as Utopian Travel. Certs, Inc. creates, distributes, and processes many types of certificates. Utopian Travel purchases our certificates and distributes and markets them to their liking. In return, Certs, Inc. fulfills the certificate if and only when the Terms & Conditions are followed.
The program that Mr. G____ has participated in provides two adults with round-trip airfare from the major airport nearest their home to any other major city in the continental United States. In order to participate in this program, users are required to fill out the activation form and send it to Certs, Inc. along with a copy of a valid photo ID for each traveler. Once Certs, Inc. receives these items, a Travel Request Form is issued. With this form, users are to indicate where they would like to travel to and from; along with two separate travel dates they wish to depart on. They are also to include a US Postal Money order in the amount of $100 to pay for taxes and surcharges associated with the flight.
Certs, Inc. received Mr. G____’s activation form and ID’s on September 29, 2007. Mr. G____ was then issued a Travel Request Form. Certs, Inc. received Mr. G_____’s filled out Travel Request form and $100 deposit on October 29, 2007. The reason that Mr. G_____ received his $100 back is because Mr. G_____ failed to adhere to one of the original terms and conditions associated with this offer. Both the original activation form and the Travel Request Form state that your first and second departure date choices must have at least 30 days between them. Mr. G_____’s first departure date choice was June 17 and his second departure date choice was July 17. There are only 29 days separating these two dates and therefore, Mr. G_____’s offer was voided. As the letter that Mr. G_____ received states, “We are unable to process your travel request. . . Please do not resubmit any documents to re-instate your certificate. The offer remains void.” [This is untrue. No letter of explanation about why my $100 had been refunded was ever sent to me. I only received their "explanation", or pretext, when I called CERTS Inc. JG]
Certs, Inc. goes to great lengths to make our terms and conditions simple and easy to understand. We have very few restrictions, but we do require adherence to be able to serve all participants who are in compliance. We are sorry that Mr. G_____ did not choose to follow all of our terms and conditions of this program; however, there is nothing that can be done.
Thank you for your time and consideration in this matter.
Sincerely,
Lauren Gallo
Certs, Inc.
Rating: +2 Skeptical Consumer - 3 Dec 2007
Skeptical Consumer - 3 Dec 2007Dear JG,
Thank you for your informative letter. I sympathize with you, as I, too, had to deal with these unethical companies. (I posted my experiences earlier on this forum.)
As far as I can tell, the companies you dealt with are different from the companies I dealt with, though the tactics and products are very similar.
In my case:
Company with main product: "Global Services" a.k.a. "Global Connections" in Overland Park, KS
Main product: $4275 to join + $395 per year for resort discounts
Marketing company: ? (they hide this, probably to avoid liability)
Marketing company phone: 800-413-5613
Promotion: two roundtrip airfares to anywhere in US + 2 nights at a hotel
Promotion fulfillment company: "World Wide Travel" in Blue Springs, MO
In your case:
Company with main product: "Vacation Travel Club" in Benton Harbor, MI
Main product: $8000 to join, for ? benefit
Marketing company: ?
Marketing company phone: 800-582-6054
Promotion: two roundtrip airfares to anywhere in US + 1 week rental car
Promotion fulfillment company: "Utopian Travel" in Beaverton, OR
Since the postcards that you and I received are extremely similar:
- "In celebration of our anniversary"
- "we've been going crazy trying to contact you!"
- Fraudulent use of airline logo (Delta for me, NWA for you)
- "two roundtrip airfares to anywhere in US"
I suspect that the marketing companies are one and the same.
Tracing the ownership of the 1-800 phone numbers might confirm that.
In each of our cases, the marketing company is either very close to, or the same as, the promotion fulfillment company. They must be tightly tied together because the details of the promotion are (at least supposed to be) stated on the postcard and by the marketing person whom you talk to when you call the 1-800 number. The marketing company cannot claim not to know the details of the promotion.
In your case, the promotion company, Utopian, appears to be the one who hosted the presentation for Vacation Travel Club! I say this because the reply you got from Utopian states "I paid somewhere close to $400 to have you sit through our presentation".
So, putting it all together for your case, it looks like this:
"Vacation Travel Club" is the main company.
They contracted with "Utopian Travel" to host a presentation to try to get you to buy "Vacation Travel Club"'s product.
Utopian Travel supposedly (according to "Janet Wilson") contracted with some unnamed marketing company, who contracted with "CERTS, Inc." to induce you to attend a presentation.
CERTS was responsible for receiving your promotion paperwork and giving you the airfare.
Utopian claims to be independent of the unnamed marketing company, and therefore not responsible for its admittedly unethical behavior.
I believe that that is a lie. I believe that Utopian _is_ the marketing company, or that they are complicit in the marketing company's scheme.
I think that you will not get anywhere by arguing with Utopian or CERTS. Writing them letters was a good start, but when they refuse to take action, just go over their heads. Keep working through the BBBs and the Attorneys General. If you do not get satisfaction through those channels, you'll have to file in Small Claims court (which is easier than you may think).
I believe you have a valid claim against Utopian if they didn't tell you all the material terms and conditions of the CERTS travel certificate PRIOR to you agreeing to attend the presentation. Under contract law, they cannot modify the terms of the original oral agreement (made over the phone) without giving you, and you accepting, some new benefit. (An oral contract is still legally binding. Besides, they almost certainly have a recording of the call.) Utopian still owes you roundtrip airfare for two to anywhere in the US. Just because CERTS tried to screw you doesn't reduce Utopian's obligation. But don't argue with Utopian over this. They've already indicated an unwillingness to cooperate. Just file a small claims case against them if you don't get anywhere with the Attorney General or the BBB.
I believe that you also have a valid claim against CERTS, though it is more tenuous: CERTS violated their contractual "duty of good faith and fair dealing" when they voided your application (without giving you a chance to remedy what they perceived to be your error) and then refused to provide the roundtrip airfare for two. I have a feeling that a judge would view their behavior as ridiculous and rule in your favor.
You can go down to your local courthouse and ask how to file a small claims case. The fee to file is usually under $50, and you can collect it when you win. Companies like these often won't bother to defend themselves, since their behavior is so despicable. In that case, you win by default when they don't show up.
You might also ask around for a lawyer who would take this case on a contingency basis. In my state (Virginia), the consumer protection laws that these companies violated specifically say that plaintiffs can recover attorneys fees when suing people who violate these laws. So, you may not have to pay an attorney at all to take your case.
Check out this article:
http://ago.missouri.gov/newsreleases/2004/082404.htm
which describes how a travel club, Vacations Services of America, a former partner of Vacation Travel Club of Benton Harbor, was found to be violating the law and was pursued by the Missouri Attorney General.
Please keep me posted about your progress.
You can write to me directly at r_q_einstein-700notes@yahoo.com , but replace the digit seven with the digit eight.
Thank you for your informative letter. I sympathize with you, as I, too, had to deal with these unethical companies. (I posted my experiences earlier on this forum.)
As far as I can tell, the companies you dealt with are different from the companies I dealt with, though the tactics and products are very similar.
In my case:
Company with main product: "Global Services" a.k.a. "Global Connections" in Overland Park, KS
Main product: $4275 to join + $395 per year for resort discounts
Marketing company: ? (they hide this, probably to avoid liability)
Marketing company phone: 800-413-5613
Promotion: two roundtrip airfares to anywhere in US + 2 nights at a hotel
Promotion fulfillment company: "World Wide Travel" in Blue Springs, MO
In your case:
Company with main product: "Vacation Travel Club" in Benton Harbor, MI
Main product: $8000 to join, for ? benefit
Marketing company: ?
Marketing company phone: 800-582-6054
Promotion: two roundtrip airfares to anywhere in US + 1 week rental car
Promotion fulfillment company: "Utopian Travel" in Beaverton, OR
Since the postcards that you and I received are extremely similar:
- "In celebration of our anniversary"
- "we've been going crazy trying to contact you!"
- Fraudulent use of airline logo (Delta for me, NWA for you)
- "two roundtrip airfares to anywhere in US"
I suspect that the marketing companies are one and the same.
Tracing the ownership of the 1-800 phone numbers might confirm that.
In each of our cases, the marketing company is either very close to, or the same as, the promotion fulfillment company. They must be tightly tied together because the details of the promotion are (at least supposed to be) stated on the postcard and by the marketing person whom you talk to when you call the 1-800 number. The marketing company cannot claim not to know the details of the promotion.
In your case, the promotion company, Utopian, appears to be the one who hosted the presentation for Vacation Travel Club! I say this because the reply you got from Utopian states "I paid somewhere close to $400 to have you sit through our presentation".
So, putting it all together for your case, it looks like this:
"Vacation Travel Club" is the main company.
They contracted with "Utopian Travel" to host a presentation to try to get you to buy "Vacation Travel Club"'s product.
Utopian Travel supposedly (according to "Janet Wilson") contracted with some unnamed marketing company, who contracted with "CERTS, Inc." to induce you to attend a presentation.
CERTS was responsible for receiving your promotion paperwork and giving you the airfare.
Utopian claims to be independent of the unnamed marketing company, and therefore not responsible for its admittedly unethical behavior.
I believe that that is a lie. I believe that Utopian _is_ the marketing company, or that they are complicit in the marketing company's scheme.
I think that you will not get anywhere by arguing with Utopian or CERTS. Writing them letters was a good start, but when they refuse to take action, just go over their heads. Keep working through the BBBs and the Attorneys General. If you do not get satisfaction through those channels, you'll have to file in Small Claims court (which is easier than you may think).
I believe you have a valid claim against Utopian if they didn't tell you all the material terms and conditions of the CERTS travel certificate PRIOR to you agreeing to attend the presentation. Under contract law, they cannot modify the terms of the original oral agreement (made over the phone) without giving you, and you accepting, some new benefit. (An oral contract is still legally binding. Besides, they almost certainly have a recording of the call.) Utopian still owes you roundtrip airfare for two to anywhere in the US. Just because CERTS tried to screw you doesn't reduce Utopian's obligation. But don't argue with Utopian over this. They've already indicated an unwillingness to cooperate. Just file a small claims case against them if you don't get anywhere with the Attorney General or the BBB.
I believe that you also have a valid claim against CERTS, though it is more tenuous: CERTS violated their contractual "duty of good faith and fair dealing" when they voided your application (without giving you a chance to remedy what they perceived to be your error) and then refused to provide the roundtrip airfare for two. I have a feeling that a judge would view their behavior as ridiculous and rule in your favor.
You can go down to your local courthouse and ask how to file a small claims case. The fee to file is usually under $50, and you can collect it when you win. Companies like these often won't bother to defend themselves, since their behavior is so despicable. In that case, you win by default when they don't show up.
You might also ask around for a lawyer who would take this case on a contingency basis. In my state (Virginia), the consumer protection laws that these companies violated specifically say that plaintiffs can recover attorneys fees when suing people who violate these laws. So, you may not have to pay an attorney at all to take your case.
Check out this article:
http://ago.missouri.gov/newsreleases/2004/082404.htm
which describes how a travel club, Vacations Services of America, a former partner of Vacation Travel Club of Benton Harbor, was found to be violating the law and was pursued by the Missouri Attorney General.
Please keep me posted about your progress.
You can write to me directly at r_q_einstein-700notes@yahoo.com , but replace the digit seven with the digit eight.
Rating: +1 Robert Ligum - 26 Jan 2008
Robert Ligum - 26 Jan 2008I was ripped off by global vacation networks in FL and currently suing
the collection company they turned over my account after I cancelled my membershipm after a 500.00 deposit, and never received the #free 7 day/night cruise they offered to get us to the MLM scheme.
liggy3836@msn.com
the collection company they turned over my account after I cancelled my membershipm after a 500.00 deposit, and never received the #free 7 day/night cruise they offered to get us to the MLM scheme.
liggy3836@msn.com
Rating: +3 Vancouver wa - 4 Dec 2007
Vancouver wa - 4 Dec 2007I think they are all pointing the fingers at each other and they have had that planned all along. I say sue them and make them answer to it all. If they do not show up and lose by default and you have your judgment then file a complaint with the copy of your judgment against thier bond company. The BBB should have a record of thier bond company. Go ahead and send them your own post card called a Summons... Good Luck you
Rating: +3 Savannah - 11 Dec 2007
Savannah - 11 Dec 2007That's probably a little easier said than done. Here's an oldie but a goodie... If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is!
Rating: +3 Nana - 20 Dec 2007
Nana - 20 Dec 2007I got the same postcard in California .. I looked to find the "World Wide Travel" agency it appears to come from, and no listing for this agency in Blue Springs, MO, where they say they are from. I wonder if they have the permission of United to use their logo? If any company isn't completely forthright and has to hide behind gimmicks like "presentations" without letting you know right up front what they are asking for, I don't bother with them.
Rating: +4 JG - 4 Jan 2008
JG - 4 Jan 2008Don Dietrich
Regulatory Specialist III
Division of Consumer Services
2005 Apalachee Pkwy.
Tallahassee, FL 32399-6500
Dear Mr. Dietrich,
In reference to case #0712-35920/DD, please accept this letter as notification that I do not accept the response of Certs, Inc. to my complaint.
There are two reasons that I find the response of Lauren Gallo (representing Certs, Inc.) unacceptable:
1) I do not believe that there are only 29 days between June 17 and July 17. Rather, there are 30 days between June 17 and July 17. If there were only 29 days between June 17 and July 17, there would have to be zero days between June 17 and June 18, or any other two days on the calendar. Between any given hour, noon for example, on June 17 and that same hour on July 17, there are exactly 720 hours. 720 hours divided by 24 hours equals 30 days. Gallo’s assertion that there are only 29 days is disingenuous and absurd.
2)Gallo also claims that “…Mr. G_____ did not choose to follow all of our terms and conditions of this program; however, there is nothing that can be done.” The fact is that I made good faith efforts to follow every one of the numerous terms and conditions established by Certs, Inc. It was Certs, Inc. that chose not to inform me that it has a different way of calculating 30 days than I do. As I stated in my initial complaint, changing one of my travel dates was not a problem for me. All Certs, Inc. had to do was call me or send me a letter asking me to move one of the dates forward or backwards by a day. That is what any honest and legitimate business would have done. Instead, Certs Inc. chose to void my certificate. Contrary to Gallo’s claim, Certs Inc. never sent me an explanation for why my $100 was refunded. All I received was a check for $100 in an envelope.
The remedy I demand from Certs, Inc. is “Two round-trip airfares from the major airport nearest [my] home to any other major city in the continental U.S.”, as promised to me by Certs, Inc.
I am most grateful for all the work you have done on my behalf, and on behalf of consumers in Florida and throughout the United States.
Sincerely,
Joel G
Regulatory Specialist III
Division of Consumer Services
2005 Apalachee Pkwy.
Tallahassee, FL 32399-6500
Dear Mr. Dietrich,
In reference to case #0712-35920/DD, please accept this letter as notification that I do not accept the response of Certs, Inc. to my complaint.
There are two reasons that I find the response of Lauren Gallo (representing Certs, Inc.) unacceptable:
1) I do not believe that there are only 29 days between June 17 and July 17. Rather, there are 30 days between June 17 and July 17. If there were only 29 days between June 17 and July 17, there would have to be zero days between June 17 and June 18, or any other two days on the calendar. Between any given hour, noon for example, on June 17 and that same hour on July 17, there are exactly 720 hours. 720 hours divided by 24 hours equals 30 days. Gallo’s assertion that there are only 29 days is disingenuous and absurd.
2)Gallo also claims that “…Mr. G_____ did not choose to follow all of our terms and conditions of this program; however, there is nothing that can be done.” The fact is that I made good faith efforts to follow every one of the numerous terms and conditions established by Certs, Inc. It was Certs, Inc. that chose not to inform me that it has a different way of calculating 30 days than I do. As I stated in my initial complaint, changing one of my travel dates was not a problem for me. All Certs, Inc. had to do was call me or send me a letter asking me to move one of the dates forward or backwards by a day. That is what any honest and legitimate business would have done. Instead, Certs Inc. chose to void my certificate. Contrary to Gallo’s claim, Certs Inc. never sent me an explanation for why my $100 was refunded. All I received was a check for $100 in an envelope.
The remedy I demand from Certs, Inc. is “Two round-trip airfares from the major airport nearest [my] home to any other major city in the continental U.S.”, as promised to me by Certs, Inc.
I am most grateful for all the work you have done on my behalf, and on behalf of consumers in Florida and throughout the United States.
Sincerely,
Joel G
Rating: +3 Maria - 14 Jan 2008
Maria - 14 Jan 2008Hi, Mr. Joel G____:
Looks like we both attended the same presentation by Utopian Travel in
Beaverton, the business ran by James Wilson and Janet Wilson--
a business selling the Travel Club and then whether or not one purchases, one is supposed to be "eligible" for 2 free tickets anywhere in
the U.S. (redeemable through Cert, Inc), and a bonus rental car
(redeemable through VIP Travel Reservations, Inc). The promotion
company--Utopian Travel, Inc and the marketing companies such as Certs
and VIP are all complicit in the scamming business. They feed on each
other and all have reciprocal relationships.
I did NOT buy the Travel Club (the one that Utopian was selling/promoting)
$11,000 to join
(minus $3,000 if one joins right away after the 90 min
presentation)
$199 (?)/month for membership
$259 for administrative fee.
I thought that the entire operations suspicious and smell like a
scam right away.
I DID NOT send in the certificate to Certs for the free airline tickets.
After reading all the terms and conditions and all the convulted rules
and the maze of instructions, I believe the company wants you to fail
and has set up a system in which you will fail and therefore, the
offer will be invalid. Businesses such as Certs have set up some
"loopholes" which seem legitimate under the law in which to continue
practicing their unethical business practices. The same goes for
Utopian Travel or for any promotion company such as Utopian Travel.
I encourage you to pursue your case against BOTH Utopian Travel and
Certs for breach of contract with you.
Good luck and I will be following on this case on this website.
Also I would like to see businesses such as these exposed through the
media of televsion and newspapers for their unethical business practices.
Looks like we both attended the same presentation by Utopian Travel in
Beaverton, the business ran by James Wilson and Janet Wilson--
a business selling the Travel Club and then whether or not one purchases, one is supposed to be "eligible" for 2 free tickets anywhere in
the U.S. (redeemable through Cert, Inc), and a bonus rental car
(redeemable through VIP Travel Reservations, Inc). The promotion
company--Utopian Travel, Inc and the marketing companies such as Certs
and VIP are all complicit in the scamming business. They feed on each
other and all have reciprocal relationships.
I did NOT buy the Travel Club (the one that Utopian was selling/promoting)
$11,000 to join
(minus $3,000 if one joins right away after the 90 min
presentation)
$199 (?)/month for membership
$259 for administrative fee.
I thought that the entire operations suspicious and smell like a
scam right away.
I DID NOT send in the certificate to Certs for the free airline tickets.
After reading all the terms and conditions and all the convulted rules
and the maze of instructions, I believe the company wants you to fail
and has set up a system in which you will fail and therefore, the
offer will be invalid. Businesses such as Certs have set up some
"loopholes" which seem legitimate under the law in which to continue
practicing their unethical business practices. The same goes for
Utopian Travel or for any promotion company such as Utopian Travel.
I encourage you to pursue your case against BOTH Utopian Travel and
Certs for breach of contract with you.
Good luck and I will be following on this case on this website.
Also I would like to see businesses such as these exposed through the
media of televsion and newspapers for their unethical business practices.
Rating: +5 an observer - 23 Jan 2008
an observer - 23 Jan 2008I strongly urge you to check into a history that leads back to the death of Marshall Field's granddaugher Bettine Reisky DeDubnic,in Tucker Hollow, Arkansas.The Wilsons were susequently arrested for that murder and extradited from Taos, NM back to Arkansas.Charges were later dropped against Janet, however, Troy stood trial for the murder but was found not guilty. From there, Troy and Janet Wilson went back to Taos, N.M and became the Mgrs. of the El Pueblo Inn. They opened the Utopian Travel office at the Inn.
The business did not last long because of the death of the owner and heirs of the estate informed the Wilson family their services were no longer needed. However,without permission or any legal claim of right, the Wilsons had obtained an open ended merchant account based on the original owner's credit. This in turn enabled them to open another travel club in Hillsboro,OR.,needing only a backer to finance the venture.
Next,enters Eric Ginn with United Network Vacations and his marketing partner Donna Loher both from Largo, FL. The Wilsons formed a partnership with Eric Ginn and the club opened in Hillsboro, OR.The relationship ended because Eric Ginn demanded a return on his investment. Donna Loher was also owed money for her marketing efforts, but was never paid the full amount due her.
On November 19,2007 Eric Ginn was charged with the murder of Donna Loher. She was murdered in a San Antonio hotel. So if anyone is finding out about United Network Vacations, that is the status of that company. This is a story that makes fiction seem more like the truth. Intrigue, mystery and murder. How long will the state of Oregon operate in their state.
The business did not last long because of the death of the owner and heirs of the estate informed the Wilson family their services were no longer needed. However,without permission or any legal claim of right, the Wilsons had obtained an open ended merchant account based on the original owner's credit. This in turn enabled them to open another travel club in Hillsboro,OR.,needing only a backer to finance the venture.
Next,enters Eric Ginn with United Network Vacations and his marketing partner Donna Loher both from Largo, FL. The Wilsons formed a partnership with Eric Ginn and the club opened in Hillsboro, OR.The relationship ended because Eric Ginn demanded a return on his investment. Donna Loher was also owed money for her marketing efforts, but was never paid the full amount due her.
On November 19,2007 Eric Ginn was charged with the murder of Donna Loher. She was murdered in a San Antonio hotel. So if anyone is finding out about United Network Vacations, that is the status of that company. This is a story that makes fiction seem more like the truth. Intrigue, mystery and murder. How long will the state of Oregon operate in their state.
Rating: +4 Two newspaper articles - 30 Jan 2008
Two newspaper articles - 30 Jan 20081) Man found not guilty in slaying of Field heiress
Chicago Sun-Times, Dec 18, 2003
HARRISON, Ark. -- A man accused of killing a Marshall Field's department store heiress was found not guilty Wednesday after jurors deliberated for much of the day.
Troy James Wilson, 54, was tried on a capital murder charge in the killing of Bettine Reisky de Dubnic, a great-granddaughter of department store founder Marshall Field.
The Boone County jury deliberated for more than seven hours after hearing closing arguments Wednesday morning.
De Dubnic, 54, was found shot to death March 21, 1999, in bed at her home near Bull Shoals, Ark.
Wilson and his wife, Janet, were arrested last year in Taos, N.M., and were later returned to Arkansas. Janet Wilson had been accused, but prosecutors withdrew the charge in September with the option to re-file it.
The Wilsons were living near de Dubnic's home in a caretaker's house. The couple had been living rent-free on property that either belonged to de Dubnic or to her friends. But officials said at the time of the couple's arrest that the Wilsons had been asked to leave.
Copyright The Chicago Sun-Times, Inc.
2) Man Arrested In Murder Mystery At Hotel
Reported by: Demond Fernandez
Email: DemondFernandez@woai.com
Last Update: 11/21/2007 1:13 pm
A man has been arrested in connection with a woman's death at a four-star hotel in downtown San Antonio.
Houston police arrested John Eric Ginn, 44, at a motel. They were acting on a murder warrant out of San Antonio.
Ginn was wanted after his girlfriend, Donna Loher, 47, turned up dead Tuesday at the Hotel Valencia off East Houston Street.
The hotel's staff passed by the woman's room for two days before her body was discovered. Police said there was a "do not disturb sign" on her door.
News 4 has learned a frantic call from Loher's son may have tipped off police that she was in trouble at the hotel. Loher's son told News 4 he knew the woman police found dead at the hotel was his mom when he described body markings and her unique jewelry.
Sources said Donna Loher was from Florida and was on a business trip when she checked into Hotel Valencia Saturday night. Loher's son said he called police late Monday, warning them she may be at the hotel with an abusive boyfriend.
Investigators said when they approached Loher's room, they could smell a foul odor. They said that odor got more intense once they made their way inside. Police spotted Loher's body on a bed inside the room. They said she had bruises on her face.
Investigators also found drug paraphernalia in her bathroom. They added that Loher's injuries make them believe she was the victim of a homicide.
Hotel workers tried to assure guests that the hotel is a safe place as police continued to look for more clues in the case.
Loher's family said she didn't use drugs and that Ginn was calling close friends, saying he did something wrong.
We'll let you know what happens in this case.
Loher's family believes her boyfriend, John Eric Ginn, has involved in her death.
Loher's family said she didn't use drugs, and that her boyfriend, John Eric Ginn, has already been calling close friends saying he did something wrong.
Chicago Sun-Times, Dec 18, 2003
HARRISON, Ark. -- A man accused of killing a Marshall Field's department store heiress was found not guilty Wednesday after jurors deliberated for much of the day.
Troy James Wilson, 54, was tried on a capital murder charge in the killing of Bettine Reisky de Dubnic, a great-granddaughter of department store founder Marshall Field.
The Boone County jury deliberated for more than seven hours after hearing closing arguments Wednesday morning.
De Dubnic, 54, was found shot to death March 21, 1999, in bed at her home near Bull Shoals, Ark.
Wilson and his wife, Janet, were arrested last year in Taos, N.M., and were later returned to Arkansas. Janet Wilson had been accused, but prosecutors withdrew the charge in September with the option to re-file it.
The Wilsons were living near de Dubnic's home in a caretaker's house. The couple had been living rent-free on property that either belonged to de Dubnic or to her friends. But officials said at the time of the couple's arrest that the Wilsons had been asked to leave.
Copyright The Chicago Sun-Times, Inc.
2) Man Arrested In Murder Mystery At Hotel
Reported by: Demond Fernandez
Email: DemondFernandez@woai.com
Last Update: 11/21/2007 1:13 pm
A man has been arrested in connection with a woman's death at a four-star hotel in downtown San Antonio.
Houston police arrested John Eric Ginn, 44, at a motel. They were acting on a murder warrant out of San Antonio.
Ginn was wanted after his girlfriend, Donna Loher, 47, turned up dead Tuesday at the Hotel Valencia off East Houston Street.
The hotel's staff passed by the woman's room for two days before her body was discovered. Police said there was a "do not disturb sign" on her door.
News 4 has learned a frantic call from Loher's son may have tipped off police that she was in trouble at the hotel. Loher's son told News 4 he knew the woman police found dead at the hotel was his mom when he described body markings and her unique jewelry.
Sources said Donna Loher was from Florida and was on a business trip when she checked into Hotel Valencia Saturday night. Loher's son said he called police late Monday, warning them she may be at the hotel with an abusive boyfriend.
Investigators said when they approached Loher's room, they could smell a foul odor. They said that odor got more intense once they made their way inside. Police spotted Loher's body on a bed inside the room. They said she had bruises on her face.
Investigators also found drug paraphernalia in her bathroom. They added that Loher's injuries make them believe she was the victim of a homicide.
Hotel workers tried to assure guests that the hotel is a safe place as police continued to look for more clues in the case.
Loher's family said she didn't use drugs and that Ginn was calling close friends, saying he did something wrong.
We'll let you know what happens in this case.
Loher's family believes her boyfriend, John Eric Ginn, has involved in her death.
Loher's family said she didn't use drugs, and that her boyfriend, John Eric Ginn, has already been calling close friends saying he did something wrong.
Rating: -10 supersleuth - 12 Apr 2008
supersleuth - 12 Apr 2008Why don't all you brilliant people do something with all this? Who cares?
It's 10-year old news. Good grief - get a life.
It's 10-year old news. Good grief - get a life.
Rating: +4 One more sleuth - 2 Feb 2008
One more sleuth - 2 Feb 2008Here are links to the stories which appeared in the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette about the arrests of Troy and Janet Wilson and the trial of Troy Wilson for the murder of Bettine Reisky De Dubnic. All charges were dropped against Janet, and Troy was acquitted.
I have been unable to find any information on the internet regarding the alleged connections between Eric Ginn & Donna Loher and Troy & Janet Wilson.
Boone County : Couple arrested in death of heiress
http://www.nwanews.com/adg/News/4672/
Wrongful Death Suit Dropped
http://www.nwanews.com/adg/National/4795/
Pair plead innocent in slaying of heiress to Marshall Field’s
http://www.nwanews.com/adg/News/6076/
Only one of couple now held in murder
http://www.nwanews.com/adg/News/38280/
Boone County : Testimony ends in murder trial
http://www.nwanews.com/adg/News/47006/
Boone County : Jury clears man in 1999 slaying of Field heiress
http://www.nwanews.com/adg/News/47492/
Boone County : Woman charged in slaying sues officials
http://www.nwanews.com/adg/News/91625/
I have been unable to find any information on the internet regarding the alleged connections between Eric Ginn & Donna Loher and Troy & Janet Wilson.
Boone County : Couple arrested in death of heiress
http://www.nwanews.com/adg/News/4672/
Wrongful Death Suit Dropped
http://www.nwanews.com/adg/National/4795/
Pair plead innocent in slaying of heiress to Marshall Field’s
http://www.nwanews.com/adg/News/6076/
Only one of couple now held in murder
http://www.nwanews.com/adg/News/38280/
Boone County : Testimony ends in murder trial
http://www.nwanews.com/adg/News/47006/
Boone County : Jury clears man in 1999 slaying of Field heiress
http://www.nwanews.com/adg/News/47492/
Boone County : Woman charged in slaying sues officials
http://www.nwanews.com/adg/News/91625/
Rating: +9 Charlie - 3 Feb 2008
Charlie - 3 Feb 2008It's called birds of a feather, flock together. There's so much more to be found out here ladies and gentleman. You have no idea.
Rating: +7 Please contact Laura Gunderson ASAP - 17 Feb 2008
Please contact Laura Gunderson ASAP - 17 Feb 2008Dear An Observer,
You are one very knowledgable person. You would make an excellent source for Laura Gunderson, the consumer affairs reporter with The
You are one very knowledgable person. You would make an excellent source for Laura Gunderson, the consumer affairs reporter with The