310-359-0444

A lady named Anna said she was a lawyer from the State Attorney's Office in California and that I had a law suit against me for an unpaid pay day loan.  She said if I didn't pay $589.36 within an hour, I would have to appear in court this Friday at 11am.

Yes she did the same thing to me it is a scam and I contacted local authorities and also the news paper around my county. There is also a man that calls this is a big id theft scam. Block there number each time they call.

If you get a call from this number it is a scam. Tell them you are going to call your states attorney office and the California states attorney office. Also tell them if they want to send you anything have them send it by United States Post Office that will turn it to mail fraud. Any law office or state office phone number will not show up blocked or unknown caller. They want you to pay fast to keep you out of court. The first time we got a call from them the number was disconnected with in 2 hours of the call.

If you get a Payday loan or cash advance you need a checking account. If you do not make payments they send your check to your bank for payment. If you do not have enough in the account to cover the check your bank will notify you a check was put into your account that had insufficient funds. The reason they do not want to deal with a bank it is bank fraud. The federal government can get involved. They do noy want to use the US Postal Service that is mail fraud. The Postmasters office will be involved. If a caller says they are a lawyer call the State Bar Association from the state they say are from and ask they about the law office that called you. The more we know the better off we are at stopping scams and frauds.

WHEN HE CALLED I TOLD HIM THAT THE PERSON HE WAS LOOKING FOR WAS NOT HERE BUT I RECEIVED A CALL FRIDAY WITH THE SAME THING ABOUT A LAW SUITE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT WITH A PAY DAY LOAN IM NOT CALLING THEM BACK

DO NOT GIVE OUT ANY INFORMATION TO THIS COMPANY THIS IS A SCAM

I contacted the company I got my "pay day" loan from, and they confirmed that this is a fraudulent phone call. They are making illegal false claims such as "We are from the state attorneys office".

The information from my creditor I received this morning is as follows:

"We are aware of this fraudulent activity and are actively investigating all cases as well as cooperating with State and Federal authorities.  The Better Business Bureau and the Community Financial Services Association are also aware of this fraudulent debt collector activity and have issued consumer alerts.  More information regarding this alert can be accessed on the Better Business Bureau website."

THIS IS A SCAM. Scammers are using bought/hacked loan application data to extort payments for fictitious debts from victims and victims' families and friends.
The FBI warns about payday loan extortion scams here http://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/paydayloanscam_120710 
The BBB has issued several alerts on this scam, just google "bbb.org alert phony debt collector"
Report to the Internet Crime Complaint Center http://www.ic3.gov/complaint/default.aspx , the Federal Communications Commission http://esupport.fcc.gov/complaints.htm , the Federal Trade Commission https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/ and your state AG, as appropriate.

these bone heads keep calling and yes I know it is a scam and have reported them to the federal trades commission. have not returned any calls nor do I intend too any loans I have or had have been paid off

got a call from a man who identified himself as "John Smith" and that he was contacting me regarding the law suit I have been named in and that I am facing criminal charges.  I asked what this is in reference to and he advised I would need to speak to his supervisor.  Supervisor came on the line and wanted me to verify who I am and my SS.  I refused and again asked him to identify what "firm" he represents, his reply "Sam with the states attorney office" - well which state?  California and the county of Los Angeles will apparenlty be coming to the East Coast to personally arrest me for the so called "criminal charges" and I will lose everything, including my job!  I have recieved multiple emails and failed to respond to any of them, yeah OK.  I wouldn't give them any info and told them to stop harrassing me, he responded I will be arressted by Friday and in a LA county courtroom to answer my so called charges, better bring my attorney and then he hung up.

Someone called and said that his name was Kevin Peterson and that I should not neglect this call and to make sure that I had an attorney to represent me, so I called and asked who they were and they asked my name and I said that you had it when you called me.  So then he proceeded to transfer me to another person who said that they were calling regarding a payment of a payday loan that I had taken out online. I rudely told them that I had never taken out a payday loan online and that maybe they should get their attorney and call me back. He quickly hung up on me and now they aren't answering my phone calls.

These people almost had me. The name of the caller was George Sylvester. As other people have noted here he speaks with a thick accent (Farsi I think), and uses terms like "stolen" and "legal charges"

I had previously spoken to this guy thinking that perhaps maybe I did forget something at one point and almost agreed to send them money. I asked for a state bar association number and at first he gave me 9687398. I tried to look it up to no avail. I called him back and asked again, this time he told me 968739A. Once again, no dice when I look it up. That's when I checked this site.

Anyway, once I figured out they aren't real, I called them back and told George what he was doing was highly illegal. I also asked him how long he has worked for al-Qaeda. He wouldn't answer that one either. Finally I told him that if he would give up the Islam nonsense and accept Jesus into his heart, be would be paid dividends far greater than money. lol, he then wanted me to tell him the name and number of anyone else who had tried to collect from me for some reason. I then asked him once again if he was really an attorney, and he responded yes, he is. I asked if he would be in court, and he said yes. I told him well I guess I'll see you then.

Kudos to "Sam" for giving the most intelligent and informative posts on this scam. READ, Bookmark and use as needed:

https://800notes.com/Phone.aspx/1-631-456-4041/2

I have been receiving phone calls from this group since late April / early May of 2010.  There is a good chance that they also attempted to contact me roughly two years ago before I entered into Chapter 7 Bankruptcy protection, as I faintly remember hearing the same script more or less.

As others have stated, the callers are difficult to understand.  Generally speaking their command of the English language is quite poor and their accents are hard to follow. At times they will get certain words or phrases mixed up.  It would be funny if it wasn't for the fact that they had:

a) Your SSN
b) Your home address
c) Your work address
d) Your banking info
e) Names, numbers and potentially the addresses of "references"
f) A complete and total lack of ethics and a basic understanding of the FDCPA.  

I have personally filed reports with the following agencies, often with limited (if any) success:

Local Police
my state's Attorney General's office
FTC
FBI
Secret Service

Generally the local police won't be able to help much.  The callers are using a combination of prepaid cell phones and VoIP, making them difficult to trace.  Also at their disposal are various spoofing tactics being implemented to catch people off guard - meaning the number that appears on your Caller ID isn't the number that is calling you for starters.  Without gaining a subpoena for the billing information for the numbers in question, the local police won't be able to get very far.  

My state's Attorney General's office couldn't offer much assistance either.  I received a form letter in the mail that my complaint was received and I would be contacted if they needed additional info.  It was more or less the same information I obtained from the FTC.  They each advised me not to give the individuals over the phone any account information or to authorize payment.  That's just common sense, though.

I never got anything from the FBI, either.  There is a good chance that since I haven't suffered a monetary loss that my concerns are low on the totem pole.  I hate to say this, but that is truly the case. Unless you were in the hole for a $1,000 (or more) you aren't going to get much more than "sorry to hear about your situation, change your phone number and move on".  I seemed to get some activity from the Secret Service.  I spoke with agent Doug Zloto. (Google him, referencing threads like these plus his name and you'll find his number also)  He seemed to care a bit more than the average person, but after giving him access to my Google Voice account, there has been no further activity from him that I'm aware of.

In the meantime I changed the wireless number the fraudsters had access to, they have no direct way to get a hold of me.  (Calls at work have ceased for some reason)  That in turn resulted in my "references" getting phone calls from the crooks.  Here is a word of caution for women that have been getting these calls - don't say anything and just hang up.  The callers are quite abusive towards women callers.  Why?  Possibly the culture.  If they are Indian / Pakistani, women are second class citizens there.  You will be treated like garbage.  This happened to a family member when she was trying her best to be extremely nice over the phone.  

The callers currently attempt to reach me through the female family member and an unused Google Voice number that they managed to find of mine.  I keep the Google Voice number open because, well, I can't delete it yet.  So, about every day, 4-5 times a day for the last week, I get voice messages from them.  It's usually just two full messages though - the other calls are broken up with static or they are attempts to read the script until the callers then screw up.  Really, they are that adamant on getting the script 100% that they will hang up mid-sentence and call back 30 seconds later.  

At this point it's a stalemate with these people.  

1) While they have the lion's share of information on us, they can't really do anything with this information.  

Why?  Think about it.

If they were to ever take funds out of your account without authorization, it's fraud and worse (for them) it is traceable.  That's why they won't do anything with your information, contrary to threats they make.  The money from your account has to go somewhere, and either your bank or a law enforcement agency can determine where the money was routed.  As a bank customer you are protected - you'd get the stolen money back in your account after 7-10 business days and the bank would be temporarily out the funds deducted from your account while they conducted their investigation.  The bank, along with law enforcement, would track down the fraudsters and apprehend them.  The fraudsters do not want to incur the wrath of a bank, just extort money out of you.  Remember that.    

Your authorization would absolve the bank from any and all liability, leaving you holding the bag.  Never give them authorization for anything - for all you know the call is recorded.  

2) We have no information on them.

Seriously, this has been going on at least since 2008, possibly longer than that based on some accounts. (6 years??? Holy crap!)  You would think someone would have slipped up by now.  Sadly, they haven't.  We can continue to grow our own intel on them and compile lists of aliases and phone numbers used, along with paraphrases of scripts used in order to educate other victims.  I'm actually putting together a site now in the meantime where I'll host audio files and lists of previous numbers used.  800notes.com is great, but no two calls are exactly the same.  It would be nice to have a site dedicated to the scam and how it works.

So that's where I am with these calls.  I have suffered no monetary loss, though I have been harassed both at home and at work.  They threaten me with arrest and other "fun" things in order to get me convinced I have to pay them.  My friends and family have been targeted and local and federal law enforcement agencies haven't been able to put a stop to things.  So, it is what it is.  I am out a wireless phone number I had for roughly six years, which is terrible since I was using that line when looking for a new job.  

Whenever I'm bored I spoof my number using Google Voice and return the calls.  I've called them the poster children for birth control, etc.  Basically a lot of nasty things that I'm sure the moderators here wouldn't appreciate me repeating - bottom line nothing nice.  I always like to close saying their parents must be real proud knowing their sons weren't man enough to get real jobs.  That usually gets a decent response.  

Way I see it - they can't do anything to me. (Despite a threat yesterday that my life would be f'ed up)  They can threaten all they want but my credit is frozen and my bank information has changed.  I've changed the only number they could really access me directly on and I've instructed my employer and family to not answer the calls.  I just call and harass them now when I find a few extra seconds.  What's the worst they can do to me?  Charge me with harassment?  

Nope, then they would have to identify themselves.

Oh, and don't bother contacting Cashnet USA about the calls.  Their "fraud" department could honestly care less.  Their "investigation" is merely a means of buerocratic CYA.  I would even be surprised at this point if actual law enforcement is involved in any shape, way or form at this time.  

There is a good chance that the information these crooks have on us was obtained from Cashnet USA - either from a database leak or from a collector that was once authorized by Cashnet to call on delinquent customers.  The other chance is they have access to Teletrack, and pulled all of our information off of there.

https://800notes.com/Phone.aspx/1-646-274-1143/3

For at least the last four years, possibly longer, a group has been calling former payday loan applicants advising them that they have defrauded a bank and are now being sued for non-payment of a loan.  The callers will claim to be calling on behalf of an attorney's office (name varies), the Dept. of Law and Investigation, ACS, or other similar combinations below:

United Legal Processing Division
Midline Marketing
Crime Monitoring Services
Monetary Crime Division
U.S. National Bank
Attorney General’s Office (usually in California)
American Legal Services
Affidavit Consolidation Services (ACS)

You will be threatened with arrest, a costly trial and possibly worse.  In no shape, way or form can you be arrested for non-payment on a consumer debt.  Do not believe these threats, as they are without merit and cannot be carried out in the manner they allege.  

Who are they?

In the past when pressed by law enforcement for an address, the callers have provided the following information:

David Morgan and Associates
Morgan & Associates
Morgan Associates
954-727-8481
1155 Northwest 85th Street
Wintergarden, Florida  33150
(Address is likely invalid)

The collector's MO matches a once legit collections agency called Ellis Crosby & Associates.  Here are some links on them:

http://www.budhibbs.com/collectorpages/ellis_crosby_and_associates.htm
http://www.budhibbs.com/collectorpages/EllisCrosbyJudgment.pdf

They have been previously fined over $1.3 million for various violations.  They have been known to use phone banks in India to make their calls, which more or less coincides with the difficult to understand accent many of us detect when we are contacted.  

The last time this group went by any "official" name was back in 2008:

Ellis Crosby & Associates / Douglas & Morgan Associates
4494 Southside Boulevard Suite #200
Jacksonville Florida 32216
Phone:  800-928-3536 / (904) 928-3536
(Address is likely invalid)

There are NUMEROUS consumer alerts out against this group of individuals:

Florida:
http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/061107/met_176207561.shtml

Kansas:  
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2010/01/ks_debt_collection.html

Colorado:  
http://www.coloradoattorneygeneral.gov/press/ ... lls_likely_orig

Rhode Island:  
http://www.collectionscreditrisk.com/news/rho ... -3002135-1.html

West Virginia:
http://www.wvago.gov/internetloanscam.cfm

Missouri:
On July 15th, 2010 a Public Awareness Bulletin was sent out by Missouri Information Analysis Center.  

"..received reports from individuals in Ohio and Illinois reference suspicious telephone calls they received. In both instances, the callers are reporting that a voicemail is received from a man, with a Middle Eastern accent, identifying himself as an officer working with the Financial Crimes Unit.  The message indicates that the reason for the call concerns a loan made by the receiver or someone in the receiver's family. The voicemail requests that a return call be made and a telephone number is provided. When a return call is made, the caller is asked to provide personal identifying information such as their date of birth and social security number.

Reports indicate that the calls are frequent and persistent and that they even threaten arrest or legal action if information or money is not provided. It appears that the individuals making these calls may have access to some records connecting individuals and their relatives.  Missouri does not have a Financial Crimes Unit and all indications are that this is a fictitious agency. If you receive a similar phone call, please be advised that it is a scam and please contact your local law enforcement agency or the Missouri Information Analysis Center at 866-362-6422."

Bottom line:

Do not supply the callers with any additional information.  Inform them you have reported them to law enforcement and hang up.  If you haven't already, go ahead and report the calls to local law enforcement, your state's Attorney General and beyond.  Look up the local Secret Service branch's information in your area and get in contact with an agent there.  

If you ever applied for a cash advance online, your information is out there.  
Possible sources for the breach of your privacy are:

* The scammers obtained your information from Teletrack - a reporting agency used by many cash advance lenders to determine their risk lending to you.  The service is able to tell cash advance lenders if you have existing loans with other companies, for example.  Many state laws prohibit borrowers from having more than two cash advances out at the same time.

* The scammers created their own fake payday loan application site.  People looking for a cash advance went to the site and applied, thus freely providing the scammers with their information for malicious use at a later time.  

* The scammers were able to get into the database(s) of cash advance lenders - probable targets being Sonic Payday and Cashnet USA.  


How to protect yourself:

* Inform your employer.  You are likely getting calls at home and/or at work, so make sure your employer is aware the calls are part of a scam and to not take them seriously.  Advise the callers that they are no longer allowed to call you at work.  If they continue to call, document the date and time of the calls you received.  Save voice mails left if at all possible.  

* Change your number(s).  For some this may not be an option, for others a one-time number change can be done free of charge.

Be advised - any references you listed on your payday loan application will be contacted.  Let those people know that this is a scam, and they can disregard.

* Use Google Voice.  Google Voice is a great replacement voice mail system for just about any phone number you use.  Messages can be transcribed and voice mail recordings can be saved as mp3 files.  

Pro Tip - call the scammers with a Google Voice number before turning off your old phone numbers.  Make sure when you call you identify yourself so they can start up their script.  At any point after they have your information pulled up just hang up.  They will then start religiously calling your Google Voice number.  At this point, you are free to change your regular phone number(s) and enjoy not having these people ever call you again.  (And laugh at the fact these people are basically talking to a brick wall several times a day)

The scammers change their numbers frequently.  Law enforcement used to think it was because the callers ran out of minutes on their prepaid wireless accounts or they were shuttered due to fraud, but now they understand it's simply to evade detection by savvy consumers online.  With the proliferation of VoIP, it's even easier for the crooks to stay a couple of steps ahead of law enforcement.  Below is just a sampling of the 30+ numbers that have been used in recent memory.

1-201-244-7722
1-209-349-7382
1-209-797-2212
1-212-500-0839
1-213-256-0408
1-213-995-3039
1-281-763-0433
1-347-289-3902
1-347-844-6817
1-347-844-6831
1-424-354-4270
1-516-232-8905
1-516-232-8935
1-518-212-0219
1-561-300-8018
1-561-210-4185
1-626-200-4646
1-631-456-4041
1-646-274-1143
1-646-810-8635
1-650-241-4604
1-707-401-4056
1-707-633-2789
1-708-401-0535
1-716-442-2824
1-717-862-4080
1-718-705-8669
1-760-514-0132
1-760-563-5384
1-772-318-4938
1-850-201-1111
1-858-777-1977
1-859-908-2281
1-866-860-4509
1-877-226-7488
1-888-706-7463
1-888-771-9249
1-888-785-4479
1-909-327-4870

So can they really do anything to you?

It's not a simple yes or no answer.  Logic dictates that, if they really wanted to take you for a ride and drain your bank accounts, they already would have.  

So, why haven't they?  

Authorization.  

Why do you think you are being called so much?  Perhaps it is because they like the sound of your voice?  No, they have to have your authorization to take any form of payment from you, period.  The callers know their audience, and that audience is typically a bunch of people that have applied for payday loans in the past.  Most of those people they call couldn't afford an attorney if they wanted one, and are so used to receiving collections calls that so long as they sound like a real collector, they will likely be perceived as one.

Furthermore, they don't even really want to talk to your attorney - that just sounds official and scary enough.  A real attorney would take the callers to task and write them off as two-bit con artists.  The callers need you, in writing, to authorize payment against the fictitious debt they claim you owe.  Go ahead, ask them for proof you owe the debt - more commonly known as verification of debt.  See what they say.  A phone authorization carries very little weight, so if they have something signed by you on file, you are done for - and the callers know that.  That authorization is the only thing these callers are doing by the book, and for good reason.  If they just went all willy nilly and made an ACH debit from your checking account, without your written approval, you could in turn report the transaction as fraudulent to your financial institution.  In about 7-10 business days, you would get the funds returned to your account.  Then the scammers would be up against a bank and their team of lawyers and investigators.  

Bottom line:

If you haven't paid the callers a dime, don't.  If you planned on paying them to shut them up, just don't.  Remember - you are not being contacted by a legally licensed, ethically owned and operated collector.  Read up on the FDCPA - http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/credit/cre27.pdf - and know your rights.

PS--The FBI sent out a Press Release on this scam just last week:

Extortion Scam Related to Delinquent Payday Loans

Washington, D.C.
December 07, 2010  FBI National Press Office
(202) 324-3691

— filed under: Press Release

The Internet Crime Complaint Center has received many complaints from victims of payday loan telephone collection scams. Callers claim the victim is delinquent in a payday loan and must repay the loan to avoid legal consequences. The callers purport to be representatives of the FBI, Federal Legislative Department, various law firms, or other legitimate-sounding agencies. They claim to be collecting debts for companies such as United Cash Advance, U.S. Cash Advance, U.S. Cash Net, and other Internet check-cashing services.

According to complaints received from the public, the callers have accurate data about victims, including Social Security numbers, dates of birth, addresses, employer information, bank account numbers, and the names and telephone numbers of relatives and friends. How the fraudsters obtained the personal information varies, but in some cases victims have reported they completed online applications for other loans or credit cards before the calls started.

The fraudsters relentlessly call the victim’s home, cell phone, and place of employment. They refuse to provide any details about the alleged payday loans and become abusive when questioned. The callers have threatened victims with legal actions, arrests, and, in some cases, physical violence if they do not pay. In many cases, the callers harass victims’ relatives, friends, and employers.

Some fraudsters have instructed victims to fax a statement agreeing to pay a certain amount, on a specific date, via a pre-paid Visa card. The statement further declares the victim will never dispute the debt.

If you receive these calls, do not follow the caller’s instructions. Rather, you should:

Notify your banking institutions.
Contact the three major credit bureaus and request an alert be put on your file.
Contact your local law enforcement agencies if you feel you are in immediate danger.
File a complaint at www.IC3.gov.
Tips to avoid becoming a victim of this scam:

Never give your Social Security number—or personal information of any kind—over the telephone or online unless you initiate the contact.
Be suspicious of any e-mail with urgent requests for personal financial information. The e-mail may include upsetting or exciting but false statements to get you to react immediately.
Avoid filling out forms in e-mail messages that request personal information.
Ensure that your browser is up-to-date and security patches have been applied.
Check your bank, credit, and debit card statements regularly to make sure that there are no unauthorized transactions. If anything looks suspicious, contact your bank and all card issuers.
When you contact companies, use numbers provided on the back of cards or statements

http://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/paydayloanscam_120710

I received a voicemail message from an "unknown" number today and was given this number to call back. I did see the FBI press release above, which recommends reporting such incidents to the IC3; therefore, I did file a complaint.

I get so many calls from these [***]. They all have the same script and cant deviate for s**t. I am coming up with incredible ways of messing with them. My favorite to date, has been repeatedly calling them with my headphones cranked up and next to the speaker on my Iphone. When they answer they get a full ear blast of System of a Down, or Slipknot any metal that I have to irritate and aggrivate. Best song thus far though was Lords of Acid, Show me your P***y, they actually listened for a minute and a half before hanging up. Other favs include, answering the phone, f**k you? in the nicest possible tone and saying only that the entire convo, generally wont last long. The Ref Whistle, everytime they try to talk, BLOW IT. Or anytime they interupt you, BLOW IT, its your choice, I opt for blowing it when they interupt me, they stay on the phone longer in hopes of over talking me. Lets make it fun for us since the government cant do jack about this situation. Push back when they call. THEY CALL YOU, you have the right to say whatever you want. I told the woman who called me this morning I was going to fly to India, sacrifice her cow on her desk, and bring the meat back to TX for a redneck BBQ. Get creative.

yes had a woman and a man called me told me the same thing also happened to a co worker too is there any way we can reprot this to authorities these people need to be stopped same money amount and  wanted me to use a prepaid walmart card or any kind of walmart card

I received a call on my work number from a man claiming to be a paralegal and to call 310-359-0444 for an important business matter envolving my name and social was in a lawyers office for debit or something like that.  I called and asked who I was speaking with the lady said Anna Jones when I told her I work for the Federal Government she immediately hung up and when I called back I did not get an answer!

I GOT A CALL FROM THIS NUMBER 310-359-0444 TODAY.THIS IS A LOAN SCAM!!!

I have recieved phones call from Anna Jones,George, Mark,Chris. With what I have read we all are having the same problem. Some of my messages are saying that the authorties will be at the my door to serve me with a warrant for me and to my job but when I ask them where I work they so dont worry bout it and hang up. This is crazy.  I wanted to leave the numbers I have been receiving.

1-508-251-9732
1-918-442-0734
1-310-539-0444
1-916-395-0000

Also they blocked the number so I know for me it comes up on my phones as (1000).

Yes they are definitely scammers! The lady called me at 8:30 in the morning. The background sounded like a very busy business with a lot of people working and making phone calls. She said that she was with the Attorney General's Office in California. She began to read and "affidavit" and told me not to interupt her. I sucked her right into her own stupidity.  I said mam you guys sure sound busy this morning. I really want to pay off this "debt". She began to talk nice to me--She thought she was getting some money now.  HAHA!!!   I STATED---- YOU MUST THINK I"M AN IDIOT RIGHT!? SHE SAID WHY SIR....LOL...  I SAID YOU HAVE CALLED ME AT 8:30 IN THE MORNING, SHE SAID YES WE'VE OPEN OUR OFFICES AT 8:00. I SAID YOU IDIOT!  I AM ON THE EAST COAST AND YOU ARE ON THE WEST COAST.  WE ARE 3 HRS APART. IT IS 5:30 IN THE MORNING WHERE YOU ARE. SO THE STATE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE IS OPEN AT 5:30AM MAKING PHONE CALLS? SHE THEN HUNG UP THE PHONE........LOL. THE STATE OFFICES DON'T OPEN UNTIL 9AM IN CALIFORNIA. DON'T PAY THESE SCAMMERS ANY ATTENTION WHATSOEVER.....LOL... PITIFUL!

Lets start a campaign against these people of our own. Anytime you guys are bored call this number or the others listed for these people and say or do something stupid to them. I suggest asking how their mom is doing after that rough weekend or something. Or just call and make goat noises. Lets have some fun with these people and tie up their google voice numbers. Remember they are in india, which means they are probably Hindu, and if so they believe cows are sacred. Have fun with that too. Try to be as random and annoying as possible so they grow to hate their own scam. If we Americans are good at anything, its making people like that hate us when we want to.