2129208181

I agree with what you say, but the problem is that those management are still there.  If news came down that Spencer got rid of those party to the scam of the past then I would concede your point, but many of them still exist.

I believe that people can learn from their mistakes, but they still have to make it right.  The only philanthropy I can see is Spencer training for his marathon to raise money for Asperger's which is good a cause as any.

The point I guess is that what has GDS done to make amends for the damage it has caused, not just to the advertisers, but to its former employees who were treated like crap, ridiculed and discredited when challenged.  I lost count at how many times GDS were brought into an employment tribunal.

Its all very well in claiming immunity, and fairness, and I agree Spencer on the surface is a good man, that has made many bad decisions.

CHANGE, requires making things right.

1 Fact I have noticed is that this thread exists! The simple fact that it does (and that there are 1000s of posts) clearly means something is fishy. I've been called by these guys a few times. A website where there are 1000s of negative claims about a company, as well as absolutely no recognition by the BBB has made my choice simple. I am not, nor would I ever do business with these people.

As a guy on the phone that was pitching less than two months ago I would act dumb if a prospect mentioned this site, even thaught I was posting here and letting everyone know what was going on. I lost sales because of this site and never once did I reconsider to say what was on my mind on this forum

And I made sales, lets get this clear once and for all; I made my numbers and I was greatful for the comission, evevn if they did screw me out of part of it when I left.

So from that perspective let me say there is nothing criminal going on at GDS, but there are many things that are possibly illegal.

Example: manager gets the [***] because it is a slow sales week and requires you to spend the whole day standing, not just when pitching but just stand at your desk, not criminal but probably illegal as it is arbitrary punishment/abuse.

Example2: Telling a prospect that a delegate attending a summit is looking for his product/service and that you know this for a FACT because they have completed a survey, when in fact that particular person has not even confirmed attedndance, again not criminal but probably illegal.

That's what happens when the formal qualification required to be a manager or HR head is having watched "The Boiler Room" a few times.

Misrepresentation is a type of lying or falsehood in which a person says or does something that would lead another person to believe something that is not "in accordance with the facts." It may be intentional or negligent, but forms an essential element of the crime and tort of fraud, if the misrepresentation is made with the intent that the other person would believe it and act accordingly.

In simper terms if you lie to close a deal that would not have otherwise been closed, then you are misrepresenting the facts.

This can be challenged under civil contract law, and possibly under criminal fraud as fraud by false representation, which is 10 years jail time in the UK

Forcing employees to stand as punishment could also deemed to be criminal in certain circumstances, like pregnancy, other notified medical condition etc.

Abuse in the work place again is illegal, and employers knowingly participating in such can be held accountable under civil and criminal law.

Forcing employees to stand could also be deemed unfair treatment and in breach of several laws including health and safety.

Criminal or Civil, this is the 21st century and employees deserve the right to work in a safe environment and not be encouraged to lie to make targets set by employers.  While of course it happens, it does not dilute the fact that it is indeed illegal and at times criminal.

In the UK and US the laws have caught up since the days of Boiler Room, and while it is indeed an unofficial training tool, it speaks volumes as to the environment in which people are working, and to the mentality of those accepting this conditions as gospel.

there has been alot of speculation (mostly by GDSers) that it is induvidual salespeople who are giving the company a bad name, but like you say "they are told to lie".

I will prove this, hopefuly by next week, when I gett access to a scanner and scan in my training material which I have just remembered I stil have.

This will include a script, tips on how to tell a more convincing lie and whatever the hell else is in the stuff they gave us.

You make some good impartial points Whistler, and it is possible iStrategy is the new acceptable GDS.
One point is telling already though. Ryan Minshull, 'global sales director' is still using the psuedonym 'Max Ford'. If the company is legitimate, why would senior directors still hide their identities? I could be wrong. Maybe by a massive ironic coincidence , someone by the name of Max Ford actually holds this position, in which case, apologies Max.
Probably it's Ryan 'Giggsy' Minshull though. There is no legitimate company that needs to use psuedonyms. Most of the companies that I have worked for would treat the use of false names to customers by employees as gross misconduct. The usual GDS claim that it is easier to use made up names when dealing with foreign companies is pure bilge.
Some things just don't change.

Neil

Yes Max Ford and Gigsy are one in the same and it is Gigsy (Ryan Minshull) who is heading up iStrategy. (his photo is on the site)

The using of monikers goes way back to the early days of GDS, and I suppose it is something that actually can aid the sales process, as it allows the seller to take on a new role or identity.

Max Ford, is simple and easy to remember, and were he to use his real name it would indeed mean a lot of spelling out and misunderstanding (Minshull) which in any sale process can risk momentum being lost.

One could argue its a way to distance themselves from recourse, that would work in the phones, but using monikers while meeting delegates at events is pretty dumb insofar as imagine getting a job offer or building up a HUGE social following then getting fired, you would run the risk of burning yourself by having to explain that you lied.

Ultimately, if its being used to assist a close by way of creating better communications, then its a harmless white lie.

I guess it depends on the intent, ultimately though long term its going to come back and bite you on the ass, or it could save your ass were you to move to another company who knew about the GDS history and you were the one who closed them. (Awkward Interview that would be)

But that was the GDS of the past, and if it has become legitimised then you do have to question the continued use, frankly if I was Max Ford I would be dumping that name as well as its history.

Lies are an inevitable part of business, some are big and some are small.  I lie myself everyday and if we are all honest with ourselves we most likely all do.

Lies like "we have others interested, you will need to move on this quickly" are common practice, lets be honest here, if you let the customer think too much, you lose them so you create an atmosphere of urgency.

Momentum in sales is crucial, so you do try to remove as many obstacles as possible or you try to create a sense of urgency.

GDS did take it too far, on many occasions.  I guess there is a line to embellishing and outright fraudulent mis-representation.

If you can deliver what you promise, then be proud of that, people will rebook again and again.  

The revolving door nature of GDS was so bad that many came in just to make some cash and then run, I know of so many deals during the Christmas run that were signed off by the salesperson mates just to reach targets and win prizes and get paid big commissions, only then to bugger off leaving GDS chasing ghosts.

Reap what you sow comes to mind.

Right I couldn't get to a scanner so I took three photos, they are photos of one peice of text from the script and two peices of text from supporting material. These three photos are of what I beleive are the only potentially illegal directives to employees. I admit I am a layperson and don't really know if these texts violate UK, US, Australian or Singaporan law, judge for yourselves.


item 1. from the very start of the script: "I was at a meeting with {insert relevant industry, people or title here} last week and one of them shortlisted you as a potential supplier"

Actualy there was no meeting and I dug you up the internet, however as an opening line and to peak their interest it is not a bad ploy and not all that terrible...if you only use it as an opener and an icebreaker.


item 2. from the objection handling guide:"the executives attending are not the decision makers" "actually we pole all of our executives to see what budgets they hold and at what stage of the purchasing cycle they are in so we only invite decision makers who have live budgets and are looking for your product/solution"

In reality, the delegates are called by young flirty girls with impossibly high pitched voices who play to their egos and tell them this whole event is about them and they have been invited to share their extensive knowledge as thaught leaders...bla bla bla bla. The delegates have a completly different and diometrically opposed view of the event as do the sponsors, no one ever asks them about their budgets, purchasing intentions and service needs. And the delegate that I may have name dropped may not even be attending the event!


Item 3. also from the objection handling sheet: "these delegates are there just for a free holiday" "actually each of our delegates pays $2 500 to attend the event"

In a word: [***]! The delegates pay nothing to attend.


Uploaded photo on imageshack:

http://img683.imageshack.us/f/img0016qhe.jpg/


Expectations are a large part of it

If a sponsor is only expecting to meet a delegate, establish a relationship and network with the hopes of doing business in the future then no harm done, despite all the lies and deception.

If however they are expecting to meet someone who has a buget set aside to buy their particular solution then they may be dissapointed, and if that particular person doesn't even show up....well you may end up with a 40 page thread about the guys that set the whole thing up.

when I left GDS many moons ago, after quite a stint there, I ended up with many excellent job offers in a variety of industries, and business types.

I was in high demand from many employers that knew GDS very very well. The training they give is top notch, and if I wasn't a business owner now, doing well, Id still keep GDS on a CV to pursue ops.

Crap sales people have to lie, the decent ones don't.

Marcus evans will also need a long thread of its own here I feel, as will any offshoots of companies set up by people that have moved on from GDS.

Lets make sure everyone like GDS is also flocked in public, to keep things square and fair.

I guess James cravens new enterprise is also a scam and will deserve some good SEO.

As will british publishers, cdm media,

cdm media who do the cio summit is a scam

british publishers is a scam

sterling is a scam

theres many publishers using high pressure sales tactics.

http://asiancorrespondent.com/ james cravens new scam website - lying about stats and traffic

ASIANCORRESPONDENT.COM SITE BY PALLIAN CREATIVE is a scam selling advertising space using fake figures and traffic stats

asian correspondent is owned by the x ceo of gds international james craven. james craven created the scam web site for gds international meet the boss TV

james craven is a conman and asian correspondent is a scam. many contributors havent been paid for content, sales people have to stand up all day, its really hard work been a salesman

asian correspondent is a scam.

http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=41436 ... _*2_*2_*2_*2_*2


CDM media CEO Glenn willis, x GDS, scammer - even on his linkedin.com account he lies and said he use to work @ http://www.getgds.com/site.php

yes thats right GET GDS

no relation of GDS and he never worked there.

why no mention of his past on linkedin.com ..

also this get gds uses the same thing as GDS will use: Global data systems

I think CDM media and their summits are also a con and a scam. they employ the x GDS staff writing this blog

Mike Deedigan
Vice President at CDM Media
Rob Simms
VP, Business Development & Event...
Ross Abbott
VP North America at CDM Media
Mark Southam
Experienced B2B Technology Marketing...


all X gds conmen, and in typical fashion all have big titles @ cdm media, scam, con, summits, SCAM :)

If you worked for those companies, and have inside knowledge then by all means start a thread and post about them.

To be honest I thought Chris Hull and his company (British Publishers) went under years ago, obviously not the case.  I had an LOL moment when seeing the similarities with the whole (strategies) publications.

Its like Clone Wars, if each of those companies concentrated more on doing business instead of copying each other it would make less fodder for forums like this.

Jim Berry of Strategic Path Australia, another former GDS MD and Salesman was someone who I thought broke the mould with his new approach, only to be short lived as he returned back to the GDS Cartel.

Sterling, no idea about that company, I recall Spencer had a connection to them many, many years ago but that is as far as it goes.

Glenn's CDM site while not looking the best, does have outstanding marketing behind it, and its well thought out, less fluff than the rest really.  No idea if its a SCAM/SHAM but I really would hope that Glenn has moved past the GDS Training and remained true to himself.

John Ward (Wardy) what ever happened to him, perhaps he is in Jail, this guy was an ass of epic proportion.

Spencer Green - Istrategy
Jim Berry - Strategic Path
Chris Hull - eStrategies

Is a pattern emerging?  Attack of the Clones.

Can't say I blame him for that.  I also would not want to list GDS as a Previous Employer, especially on the likes of LinkedIN.

The GDS name is dirt.  I seriously would consider re-branding if I were them.

The only people who think GDS training is good is Yellow pages and other like-minded sales positions, Car sales for example are a lover of GDS training.

The problem with GDS is that the culture is teaching you that you should lie and rewarding you for doing so.  There are plenty of good sales people who sold because they were just good at selling and did not need the fruit and fluff BS from the scripts.

They were few and far between.

If you are happy to share companies who are seeking former GDS employees then please post as I am sure there are many former GDS staff would appreciate this information.

What Marcus Evans and the like do is beside the point, they can be a thousand times worse, this thread is about GDS. All of these posts are off topic, wether preplanned or accidental, they are taking the discourse away from GDS which is what people on here want to read and write about into a more generalised discussion about telemarketing.

I'm sure there are dedicated topics for other companies and telemarketing in general where this can be discussed.

I am reporting all of the above posts to the administrator with a request they be removed because they are contaminating the topic with irelevant spam.

alwite Glenn?

No I just genuinely hate GDS. You could have fit all those companies in one post rather than half a dozen, clearly it is taking the topic of conversation away from GDS misconduct. And considering how much effort GDS have shown to shut this thread down it wouldn't suprise me if this was another topic.

On top of that you answered me within minutes which makes me think you have a google alert for everything posted here which again makes me suspicious, because only someone with a vested interest would do that.

And speaking of google and with relevance to what I just said, this is GDS's latest attempt to manipulate public opinion:

http://googledropdown.com/2011/02/gds-international-scam/

whats your vested interest Glenn?