Debt after death: Banks chase down mourners

I dropped BoA years ago - they kept over debiting my car payment by $300 more than it was made out for.   Funny that the loan company never saw the extra $300 !

if BOA was so bad, why are they still in business? Why dont people close their accounts and go elsewhere? I'm sure some do but you have that in any bank. Mistakes are made, sure. I dont believe a man was threatened with foreclosure over $80. Give me a link to this. Yes, credit checks are done when you open an account. Thats standard procedure but we wont deny you an account because you pay your bills late. We mainly want to make sure you dont have any fraud or bounced checks or anything like that.

Now I understand about the fraud and bounced checks, my mom worked in that for nearly 50 years, yeah, I said 50 years. Unheard of now.
As for BoA still doing business, they shouldn't be.
This is what us taxpayers get in return for bailing them out.
There'll be more and more and yet more stories about BoA, JPMorganChase, Wells Fargo and on and on.

I hope that folks out there realize that this Bank of America is not the one that some of us grew up with.  It is not the B of A of Giannini.  It is not the bank that brought us BankAmericard, a development that we marveled at in the late 50s.  (I am a native Californian)  Nor is it the same bank that ate up Seafirst bank (1983) in my then new home in Seattle.  Nor is it the bank that fattened itself up with the acquisition of Security Pacific Bank in 1992.  These were pretty big deals for the time.  We had banked with those other banks that were acquired by B of A but never with Bank of America itself, either the old one or the new one.  It’s a good thing.  

Many of us may view the growth of Bank of America through acquisitions and not through an influx of customers through good policies and their resultant good public relations as a bad thing.  But the really big change in attitude in business came when the old B of A was taken over by NationsBank in 1998.  An in-law of mine was a vice president there at the headquarters in San Francisco.  After many years in the banking business, all with B of A, he did not survive the acquisition.  I haven’t asked, but I think he would have not minded the change of scenery to Charlotte.  No, the Bank of America is that in name only.  NationsBank kept the name.  I presume it sounds better.  Too bad it isn’t really better, but worse.  

You say that you have met John Thain, that he is a good man, and that you respect and admire him.  At his office?  Nice digs, no?  One and a quarter million dollars will go along ways in this economy.  You said in an earlier post, “You're not entitled to a job, you have to earn it. You have to prove yourself worthy.”  (3 January)  Would you care to share your thoughts on how much of that $84M of John’s paycheck in 2007 at Merrill was “earned”?  Do you have a similar admiration for Ken Lewis? Was he also “worthy” of his final compensation of $20M in 2009?  (Note the dates and sync them up with the country’s economic situation.  For extra credit, see the ties they both had in the wheelings and dealings during that time frame.)

I gotta go now.  The bathroom calls.  This afternoon’s recreation will consist of a call to the local hospital to see why a 2-hour consultation there should be charged at $1480, followed by a call to the county’s assistant district attorney regarding my subpoena as a witness to a fight outside my door last September.  Life just keeps getting better.

Over the weekend I hope to delve into the Parable of the Talents.  Your take on that, and how it relates to personal responsibility, is interesting to say the least.  In the meantime, regarding those fortunate few who rake in vast sums of earned compensation, “ . . . For unto whomsoever much is given; of him shall be much required . . .” (Luke 12:48b, but check out the fuller context, starting with verse 41.  Sobering.)

Some of us apparently have short memories. Here's a fairly well known story from Summer 2011. A Florida couple fought BoA for months when the bank tried to foreclose on their house ... which HAD NO MORTGAGE. The place was paid in full on the barrelhead. BoA lost in court and tried to pretend there was no order to pay the victims' legal fees. The homeowner was forced to mount a spectacular foreclosure and asset seizure on the local bank branch to obtain relief.

Tables turned: Bank pays up in mistaken foreclosure case
http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2011/jun/03/ta ... reclosure-case/

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/06/0 ... bank-of-america

This item reviews both the Florida case and a BoA branch manager in Georgia who was ignoring a court order to destroy an abandoned home owned by the bank.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/bank-america-f ... ory?id=13775638

BoA has since been sued for securities fraud and not playing straight with its shareholders.

Bank of America agrees to $8.5 billion settlement on fraud claims
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/jul2011/boab-j02.shtml

"The investors .... claim that Bank of America passed off securities created by bundling toxic mortgages during the 2004-2008 housing bubble as safe investments, and that Countrywide, which originated the loans, obtained little, if any, documentation on the income and assets of home buyers and then failed to service the loans properly."

A $50 Billion Claim of Havoc Looms for Bank of America
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/09/27/for-ba ... claim-of-havoc/

"This lawsuit, brought by Bank of America shareholders, claims that Bank of America and its executives, including its former chief executive, Kenneth D. Lewis, failed to disclose what would be a $15.31 billion loss at Merrill in the days before and after the acquisition. The plaintiffs contend that this staggering loss was hidden to ensure that Bank of America shareholders did not vote against the transaction."

Here's a prognosis from a week ago about BoA's future health:

BofA ‘Three-Ring Circus’ Is the Dow’s Worst
http://www.cfoworld.com/banking/28264/bofa-three-ring-circus-dows-worst

"Bank of America Corp. is on track to be this year’s worst performer in the Dow Jones Industrial Average ..... mortgage firm Fannie Mae has stepped up demands that Bank of America repurchase defective loans.

“They have this big exposure to subprime mortgages, to potentially settling with buyers of securitized subprime and buying back loans that were improperly” bundled into bonds ...."

I won't reproduce the miles of consumer complaints here, or my own long story on BoA. We're already way off thread topic as it is. I will say that I'm personally still waiting to see evidence of this big-box bank's "integrity and compassion".

I believe John Thain is entitled to these bonuses because he has worked hard to get where is and deserves it. It doesnt matter what the economy is like. It's hard work being a CEO and that is why the reward is great. Why dont you work hard and become a CEO so you can make millions instead of demonizing these men?

"Why must the debt be paid by a family member? The creditor took the risk on the loan."

You're absolutely right.  The family member doesn't owe it.  But it's not unreasonable to assume that the executor of the estate of the deceased is a family member.  This is why this *gross* Discover Card person called the survivor.  And, I'm right with you on the risk that the creditor took - while not perfectly so, we ( in the US) live in something that approximates, strives for, a condition known as free market.  IMO, if you are going into the money lending business, you have to be at peace with the idea that you are not always going to make money and that sometimes, you are going to lose.  This idea, fact seems to be a tough one for most creditors.  These are the creeps that think that getting that last cent back, plus interest, is their God given right and they will pursue that self perceived 'right' to the ends of the earth and beyond.

But, the law allows for creditors to ask for whatever they can from the estate of the deceased.  It's petty that they couldn't wait until the executor got around to taking care of this.  But, this 'hurry up and pay' mentality is the norm for these people.  What's really gross is when there isn't enough to cover the debt in the estate and the creditor decides to turn it over to a debt collector.  So much is wrong with this country...

True that:

Why Isn't Wall Street in Jail?

Financial crooks brought down the world's economy — but the feds are doing more to protect them than to prosecute them

By Matt Taibbi
February 16, 2011 9:00 AM ET

Over drinks at a bar on a dreary, snowy night in Washington this past month, a former Senate investigator laughed as he polished off his beer.

"Everything's f-d up, and nobody goes to jail," he said. "That's your whole story right there. Hell, you don't even have to write the rest of it. Just write that."

I put down my notebook. "Just that?"

"That's right," he said, signaling to the waitress for the check. "Everything's f-d up, and nobody goes to jail. You can end the piece right there."

Nobody goes to jail. This is the mantra of the financial-crisis era, one that saw virtually every major bank and financial company on Wall Street embroiled in obscene criminal scandals that impoverished millions and collectively destroyed hundreds of billions, in fact, trillions of dollars of the world's wealth — and nobody went to jail. Nobody, that is, except Bernie Madoff, a flamboyant and pathological celebrity con artist, whose victims happened to be other rich and famous people.

The rest of them, all of them, got off. Not a single executive who ran the companies that cooked up and cashed in on the phony financial boom — an industrywide scam that involved the mass sale of mismarked, fraudulent mortgage-backed securities — has ever been convicted. Their names by now are familiar to even the most casual Middle American news consumer: companies like AIG, Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers, JP Morgan Chase, Bank of America and Morgan Stanley. Most of these firms were directly involved in elaborate fraud and theft. Lehman Brothers hid billions in loans from its investors. Bank of America lied about billions in bonuses. Goldman Sachs failed to tell clients how it put together the born-to-lose toxic mortgage deals it was selling. What's more, many of these companies had corporate chieftains whose actions cost investors billions — from AIG derivatives chief Joe Cassano, who assured investors they would not lose even "one dollar" just months before his unit imploded, to the $263 million in compensation that former Lehman chief Dick "The Gorilla" Fuld conveniently failed to disclose. Yet not one of them has faced time behind bars.

Invasion of the Home Snatchers

Instead, federal regulators and prosecutors have let the banks and finance companies that tried to burn the world economy to the ground get off with carefully orchestrated settlements — whitewash jobs that involve the firms paying pathetically small fines without even being required to admit wrongdoing. To add insult to injury, the people who actually committed the crimes almost never pay the fines themselves; banks caught defrauding their shareholders often use shareholder money to foot the tab of justice. "If the allegations in these settlements are true," says Jed Rakoff, a federal judge in the Southern District of New York, "it's management buying its way off cheap, from the pockets of their victims."

To understand the significance of this, one has to think carefully about the efficacy of fines as a punishment for a defendant pool that includes the richest people on earth — people who simply get their companies to pay their fines for them. Conversely, one has to consider the powerful deterrent to further wrongdoing that the state is missing by not introducing this particular class of people to the experience of incarceration. "You put Lloyd Blankfein in pound-me-in-the-ass prison for one six-month term, and all this B.S. would stop, all over Wall Street," says a former congressional aide. "That's all it would take. Just once."

But that hasn't happened. Because the entire system set up to monitor and regulate Wall Street is f-d up.

Just ask the people who tried to do the right thing.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why ... n-jail-20110216

Is it any wonder, then, why the owners of debt collection agencies who intentionally violate Federal consumer protection laws  (JP Morgan Chase owns NCO Financial Systems, Inc., Accounts Receivable Management, Healthcare Revenue Cycle Management, Attorney Network Services, University Accounting Services, LLC., Transworld Systems, Inc. (TSI) Accounts receivable management, Systems & Services Technologies (SST) and NCO Financial Services, Inc. Accounts Receivable Management in Canada. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCO_Group), have not been (and never will) be prosecuted, either?

Someone who accidently forgot to pay for a product got arrested while corporate crooks who wreck the lives of millions are given more and more money. Justice well served NOT.

You have resorted to the very same tired lines I have seen emanating from those who troll on the Yahoo posts.  Are you copying and pasting from them or is this truly original?

“John Thain is entitled to these bonuses because he has worked hard to get where is (sic) and deserves it.”  

I have seen this explanation (verbatim except for the name) enough times to make my eyes cross.  I could take the easy way out here and show how this very statement can be made for the pirates off the Somali coast.  They work very hard for what they get.  It is difficult and dangerous work, to boot.  A defender of your statement would say that this is a different case.  I know that, but in what way?  Does it differ in any substantial element?  Sure, “the pirates, by comparison, have a terrible retirement package.”  “Thain only gets wet in the shower.”  “But the pirates are immoral and hurting people and Thain and his cohorts are” . . . oh, please don’t make me go on.  

“It doesn’t matter what the economy is like.”

Oh well, how’s this?  At the very least, people in his position should not be making mind-boggling bonuses that if their performances were duplicated on the lower levels of employment they would get fired or jailed.  Square that “doesn’t matter” part with the economy that he and his type have bestowed upon you and me.  You will need to come up with a different definition of “deserve” to give your argument wings.  The problem with that is that the newer, improved definition of “deserve” will need to exist in some sort of parallel universe.  

“Why don’t you work hard and become a CEO so you can make millions . . .”

Okay Hal, ya got me there.  Upon entrance to Cal State University at Los Angeles in 1970, I declared economics as my degree intention.  This was natural, considering the facts that 1.  It was interesting, and 2.  My mother worked in the School of Business and Economics.  It was because of, rather than in spite of that tie that I was very acquainted with the professors there.  As a favor to me, they all told me to ditch the major, that the job market for the foreseeable future for business majors of any sort was very dim, with the exception of accounting.  I took their advice and majored in music.  Dang, and to think that in my later years I could have become part of the cabal that brought down the world’s economy!  Silly, silly, silly me.  Instead, I entered a path that eventually led to service for my wife and child.  Mammon has never been very high on my priorities list, not even in my early days as an Agnostic.

“ . . . instead of demonizing these men?”

Why do you make this so easy?  Demonizing those who commit demonic acts only requires the action of pointing.  However, I am thankful to the truly ambitious here who have the tenacity and temerity to gather the facts surrounding this fantastic world of high-minded entrepreneurs who are so very deserving for their efforts.  Special thanks to Alfalfa and Resident 47.  Your cruising around the Net for this can be exhausting and will trouble the spirits of some of us, with all the devious side trips that come up.

Would you care to do the same in an effort to justify $84 million for a year’s worth of work?  Please don’t start in with that tired old stuff about sports figures or celebrities.  I’m loaded for bear on that one and besides, it isn’t applicable to Thain or Lewis.  Neither of them sells out Madison Square Garden, where thousands pay to watch, nor guarantees the Yankees huge television rights, which not only benefits the team, but sates their legions of fans, nor do they sell millions of CDs or downloads to those wishing for entertainment.  

So just how has Mr. Thain justified his compensation?  Or did he simply tell you that he is worth it and you believed him?  Does he have a bigger fan base than one? Are any of the customers of B of A, or any other of the entities they are associated with, wildly enthusiastic regarding their efforts?  Careful;  Check their actions, the time line, and sync them up with the results before answering.  You are in an ethical and moral minefield here.  Good luck.  

My apologies.  I did not take on the Parable of the Talents.  My mindset over the weekend precluded me from doing so.  Hopefully, I will soon.  With just a cursory glance (Matthew 25:28) it looks as though I am screwed and must hand over my one talent to John Thain for he has done so much with what he has been given.  You too.  Oh wait!  Maybe these “talents” aren’t literal but metaphorical.  I will look further in the chapter for context that clarifies.  At first glance, verses 35-40 give me a little comfort, particularly 35 and 36a, but that will wait.  I have more papers to organize and put in folders.  And still need to write a letter to the hospital inquiring how a one-hour consultation is worth $1480.  Great gig, if you can get it.

In deference to those who tire of Bible references, a parting shot from somebody else:

“Moderation in all things.” ~ Terence

Yeah I know, most people use this in reference to drinking or eating.  Note the word “all.”

The lamb has a point. We shouldn't be getting greedy, should live by our means, but then certain corporations are run by greed, so what the hell is lamb trying to prove? That he isn't part of a greedy network? Someone said capitalism is greed. You agree with me lamb? Or are you trying to get out of reality? Frauds and scam are run by greed as well.

Scavenger capitalism is greed. Real Capitalism is which helps get jobs to everybody, and brings oppurtunities. Capitalism that helps the economy. Capitalism that is transparent. Capitalism that goes against frauds, this is what builds an economy. The rest will destroy it like a vampire that sucks blood.

Judge Finds West Asset Management’s Collection of “Death Debt” Unlawful

The 68 year-old Florida widow, Linda Long, won the right to pursue West Asset Management (West Asset) for damages in a civil suit.  A Florida judge assigned to the case found in her favor after weighing facts that West Asset harassed the widow when it tried to collect a debt her deceased husband... Read More... http://www.consumerlitigators.com/2038/consum ... -debt-unlawful/

What a great article to start the New Year with: An elderly widow wins the right to pursue a notorious bottom feeder in court for harassing her over her dead husband's debt she is not legally liable for--and further confirming what we already know: BoA is desperate for cash and will not stop at anything to get it.

Thanks for sharing.

Bank of America acquired Countywide Financial back in 2008 in a brilliant move to get an in-house  sub-prime mortgage originator so they could play with the big boys in packaging and selling collateralized debt obligations and make just tons of money;)    What they didn't know --but everyone else did by that time--was that Countrywide was rotten to the core with bad sub-prime loans that were defaulting at a massive rate.   All BoA acquired were billions in losses and they have been desperate to get the money out of someone, anyone to make up those losses ever since.    All their lying rationales for increasing fees and reducing services are in fact because of that.   If the government hadn't bailed them out, essentially  using taxpayer money to pay off BoA's gamboling debts, they would already be belly up.   Have no pity for these greedy creeps; they most certainly have none for anyone else.