8189096800

They also hit up my family for $50K.  They received $15K first time around and then rented a home in Highland Beach on the water and got $35K more from them. Yes there were other "so called investors there".  With Florida being the land of the scam and also known for the most rehabilitation centers per capita, I would not doubt it if they paid some of the junkies to come and sit in the audience. It is not if the movie will make it to the theatres it is how much of anyones investment will they see returned.  If I was a betting woman I would say none.  How do people like this get away defrauding people the way they do. With all of the judgements against them they should all go to jail and rot.  But then they would be taking our money again as we support them in jail.

Why do you say you were duped? Why do you expect a return on your investment before the movie is released? According to the legal documents, investors are in a 1st payback position plus 20% before any profit is paid to the production company so unless the movie is a complete dud investors will get their investment back plus share in the profits.

@MSK about ivestortoo

I think that some of these rebuttals are from the "company" aimed to minimize the damage caused by rouge negative postings about this or any project they are raising for.

MSK you are correct not to invest.

investortoo if you are a investor in fact then I wish you the best of luck,  but MSK is right.

MLK has it right; the biggest problem is that these guys are selling these shares to unqualified, unsophisticated investors, in violation of the SEC rules that regulate these types of investments, and in a contradiction of their own SEC application Form D. I personally know some of these not accredited investors and can vouch for their unsophistication (gullibility).

The problem with the earnings might be even larger than MLK reported. If you read the Mckenna complaint from the state of Massachusetts,

http://www.sec.state.ma.us/sct/sctmckenna/mckenna_complaint.pdf

you will find that McKenna had a contract to receive and indeed received a 40%  “consulting fee”, making the amount earned by selling 50M of these shares a whopping $20,000,000.00. Not bad, there is a great earning opportunity and no risk whatsoever to the consultants or producers.

Whether the project fails or not is irrelevant, and in spite of these peoples long history of scams and failures, I hope that for the sake of the countless people who invested money that they could not afford to lose, it is a smashing success. The main point is that these guys with their proven record of failures and loses are risking other (unqualified) people’s money, on a crazy independent movie idea in a market that is dominated by major studios, while at the same time making perhaps as much as 40% of all the “shares” sold. MLK, I don’t think you would be happy or excited to risk so much of other people’s lives on such highly speculative risk,and in violation of countless regulations. I rather suspect, judging by your ability to think clearly, that you might find it hard to sleep at night.

MLK has it right; the biggest problem is that these guys are selling these shares to unqualified, unsophisticated investors, in violation of the SEC rules that regulate these types of investments, and in a contradiction of their own SEC application Form D. I personally know some of these not accredited investors and can vouch for their unsophistication (gullibility).

The problem with the earnings might be even larger than MLK reported. If you read the Mckenna complaint from the state of Massachusetts,

http://www.sec.state.ma.us/sct/sctmckenna/mckenna_complaint.pdf

you will find that McKenna had a contract to receive and indeed received a 40%  “consulting fee”, making the amount earned by selling 50M of these shares a whopping $20,000,000.00. Not bad, there is a great earning opportunity and no risk whatsoever to the consultants or producers.

Whether the project fails or not is irrelevant, and in spite of these peoples long history of scams and failures, I hope that for the sake of the countless people who invested money that they could not afford to lose, it is a smashing success. The main point is that these guys with their proven record of failures and loses are risking other (unqualified) people’s money, on a crazy independent movie idea in a market that is dominated by major studios, while at the same time making perhaps as much as 40% of all the “shares” sold. MLK, I don’t think you would be happy or excited to risk so much of other people’s lives on such highly speculative risk,and in violation of countless regulations. I rather suspect, judging by your ability to think clearly, that you might find it hard to sleep at night.

It's MSK not MLK, sorry MSK

If the commission, which is illegal I believe, is as high as 40% and the production company lobs off a production fee of an additional 20% ( that’s off the top not 20% of actual budget) then less than .40 on the dollar goes to the production. which means that the actual money for the film is below $20 million. How can a $20 million film compete with the big studios $150 million + budgets? How much will be spent on advertising? From what I read many films open on 3000 screens. That has to cost a lot of money. Who pays for that? I am not so sure investors are in a first position payback, don't teh theater owners and distributors collect first? and if the production company is taking a large fee off the top are they in a first position? Win, lose or fail they make $10 million. I am not even sure who is in charge of this thing. There seems to be dozens of people making money. Has anyone spoken with Jeff Urdank?  (I can’t find any information on this guy, does he even exist??) He seems to run the new LLC. I have spoken with Neil Kaufman and he seems like a real nut. Something is wrong with him, and he seems to have a shady past according to Texas. then there are the Carroll brothers, well it is obvious that they have been involved with a lot of scams in the past. I can never get it clear if anyone has ever been paid back. On top of all that is this Centineo guy and his group of scammers. None of them seem to know a thing about investments or films. Just smooth talkers. Is there any way to request accounting records? Can a group of investors request a complete accounting record, don’t we have a right to those records? If the money is not being spent correctly don't we have a right to change production staff? What about this Michael Douglas guy? The Bridge Group? What is that? I have never received a call back and e-mails just seem generically created. Nothing seems real. Yeah there is a movie being made, but at what cost? Who is really making the money? I understand admin costs but 60%. OUCH!! Can I even get my money back? Why does the SEC allow this? It seems they have had their hands slapped by half dozen states but nothing seems to stop them, they just change names and go one raising money. Does anyone know how much they have really raised?

LOS ANGELES - These defendants sold more than $2.6 million in illegal, unqualified "shares," despite previous cease-and-desist orders against all of them, the California attorney general says: Alpine Pictures, Dorothy Of Oz LLC dba Box Office Productions III LLC, Ryan Carroll, Rene Torres, and Neil Kaufman.
http://www.asc.state.al.us/Orders/2009/CD-2009-0034.pdf
http://www.corp.ca.gov/ENF/pdf/2009/DorothyOz_dr.pdf
https://www.secure.psc.state.pa.us/releases/m ... 911305776061531
http://www.sec.state.ma.us/sct/sctmckenna/mckenna_complaint.pdf
http://www.asc.state.al.us/Orders/2009/CD-2009-0034.pdf
It is not so much a matter of whether it is real or not. The question no one bothers to ask is how the money is being spent Greg Centineo says he has raised over $50M and if my calculations are correct that is a commission to him of $10M. I would be excited too. He can't fail. The production company also made over $10M so far, again they win, and how the other $30 M was spent is anyone's guess. Has anyone seen a cost report, budget or any accounting documents? If they aren’t raising money legally why would they do anything else legally? It doesn’t seem to really matter to Greg, and the others because they have all become rich. VERY rich in a bad economy.
Response
He has it right; the biggest problem is that these guys are selling these shares to unqualified, unsophisticated investors, in violation of the SEC rules that regulate these types of investments, and in a contradiction of their own SEC application Form D. I personally know some of these not accredited investors and can vouch for their unsophistication (gullibility).

The problem with the earnings might be even larger than MLK reported. If you read the Mckenna complaint from the state of Massachusetts,

http://www.sec.state.ma.us/sct/sctmckenna/mckenna_complaint.pdf

you will find that McKenna had a contract to receive and indeed received a 40%  “consulting fee”, making the amount earned by selling 50M of these shares a whopping $20,000,000.00. Not bad, there is a great earning opportunity and no risk whatsoever to the consultants or producers.

Whether the project fails or not is irrelevant, and in spite of these peoples long history of scams and failures, I hope that for the sake of the countless people who invested money that they could not afford to lose, it is a smashing success. The main point is that these guys with their proven record of failures and loses are risking other (unqualified) people’s money, on a crazy independent movie idea in a market that is dominated by major studios, while at the same time making perhaps as much as 40% of all the “shares” sold. I don’t think you would be happy or excited to risk so much of other people’s lives on such highly speculative risk, and in violation of countless regulations. I rather suspect, judging by your ability to think clearly, that you might find it hard to sleep at night

So according to court documents the “commission” is 40%? Is that even legal?
Of the alleged $50 ( which could be a great deal higher than that since there is no actual accounting or budget available) and Neil Kaufman and Greg Centineo are splitting $20 million and the Carroll Bros. are getting $10 million then what is their motivation to make a successful film? I assume they will flee the country before the end of this.
Can’t the investors demand to see the real budget and true accounting records? Not BS stuff. The members should hire a forensic accountant to go through the cost reports and find out how many lavish trips, restaurants cars and homes this has bought. Why do they keep raising the share prices and changing names? And why do they keep asking me for more money? Who is watching out for the investors? Why have I never met Jeff Urdank and can’t find any info on him? Does he exist? Everything on the Carroll Brother sis BAD, Neil Kauffman BAD (bankruptcy, drug addict), what has Centineo done? I think he made money scamming people on mortgages or something sleazy. He looks sleazy and slick.

repost this on other sites

MSK, did you yourself actually invest in these shares? If so, then according to the “CONFIDENTIAL PRIVATE PLACEMENT MEMORANDUM” that I received in 2010 and I suppose you signed as an investor, on page B-14 Article 9.2 it is stated that the books are available for your examination at the company’s principle office. I hope that you live close to Burbank, CA, and if not it might be worth the trip. In light of the most recent action by the Attorney General of the state of CA perhaps there are some other potential victims “members” who have some knowledge about finances, and can read a financial statement, and who live close to Burbank, who would take a look at the books and enlighten us all. I myself did not invest in these shares (not my first load of watermelon) and these books are not available to me as a non-member. The reason that I did not invest is that I actually meet the definition of an accredited investor and as such had the knowledge and experience to figure this all out before they took my money, I can’t say that the same was true of some of my friends who were separated from theirs. I would recommend that you either read or re-read the entire “CONFIDENTIAL PRIVATE PLACEMENT MEMORANDUM” with specific attention paid to RISK FACTORS, INVESTORS SUTABILITY STANDARDS, Article 8 and Article 9. The entire memorandum will be a thrilling read to those who invested and signed it without first reading it.
More problematic is the amended Form D filed with the SEC on July 1st, 2010:
http://secwatch.com/filings/view.jsp?formid=7285690
part 14 of that form states that these “shares” will not be sold to persons who do not qualify as accredited investors. Do you or any of the other “members” qualify as accredited investors as defined in INVESTORS SUTABILITY STANDARDS and Article 8 of the “CONFIDENTIAL PRIVATE PLACEMENT MEMORANDUM”?
In my opinion that is the biggest question and a problem of this entire enterprise: unqualified investors being sold “shares” by professional fundraisers with a history of violations, failures, bankruptcies and mediocrity, who make ungodly profits (perhaps as much as 62% - 22% to managing members and 40% consulting fee) regardless if the project fails or not.

I have had no success in seeing any financial records of any kind. What I feel would work better is if a group of investors get togther and hire a proper forensic accountant to review all budgets and a detailed cost report of where exactly the money is going. Other than this forum I do not know any other investors but I am sure that plenty of other investors must know others. It sounds like they are throwing investor parties like they sell Amway products and probably use the same sales approach. Dupe one fool and then have them dupe their all their family & friends. At least that is what I am reading here. I do seriously doubt that all investors are accredited. My concern is that if they have raised over $50 million and have pulled commission and fees of what appears to be upwards of 62% ( according to court records, even though it says nothing that high in the PPM) there is around $31 million dollars that is going into someone's pocket and not towards the project. I feel that the BIGGEST problem is the continued stupidity, ignorance and arrogance of the investors. It seems most of them deserve to lose their money.( unless the comments one made that the “positive” feedback” was just a salesman posting) But I also assume that there are those that were duped and falsely believe that they can retire on this. The numbers don't add up. Investors are not in first position payback. The sales reps are. It seems that Greg and his team all make money first. A LOT of money. According to many reports Neil Kaufman received 22% of the $24 million (although it appears they raised considerably more that $24 million from Box Office Productions, I think it is over $30 million and now they are raising more through Greg Centineo and something called Emerald of Oz. Greg boasts they have raised $50 million, I am not sure if that is on top of the $30 million or not. NOTHING seems clear.
Also they say that producers like Bonne Radford, the director and the cast and who knows who else are profit participants, but that their profit comes out of Alpine’s (Summertime, Box office production or that this new Emerald thing; I am not even sure how this is all supposed to make sense) but is Lea Michelle and Kelsey Grammer going to wait until I get all MY money back, plus 20% before they want their money? It seems like the investors will have to shoulder that burden too, even though they lie about that.
Which brings up another point, as an investor are we are not allowed to review the contracts with these people? What is the company giving away? They have may have made deals that have given away 400% of the company. No one sees anything so no knows how much everyone is getting.
Seems like the only smart guy on here is the guy that read the Private Placement Memorandum and passed on the deal of a life time.

Why aren't people lawyering up?  It really only takes one lawsuit to get the ball rolling.  Also, why isn't anyone calling the D.O.C. and telling that they are continually violating the 25110 by contacting people who do not have an established business relationship.  Why aren't they tell the same D.O.C. they have been calling after Cease and Desits have gone out?

Ohh I know why people are embarrassed to say they got dupped?

My # GFY  See you at at the movies as##hole, so many haters.  Why do you all practice deception, and fear mongering.  I worked for this company and they are legit, you guys are confused, and frankely pretty ignorant.  I hope the highest grossing movie of 2012 straightens you out but I doubt it.  Haters hate, thats what you do.  Hows that S & P 500 working for ya?  You probably get your financial advice from a broker and watch CNN.  Oh by the way my # 702.800.3550 step out of the mirer and into the light.

Go Steve--you tell them!!

How desperate do you have to be to run the scam on a site like this? All I can say is WOW!

Probably the same person, neither of them can spell. Illiterate "investers" LOL!

20% goes to keep the lights its not a commision it is the cost of raising $$$

24 for Dorothy bottom line then a 75 million for the remainder of the franchis -e seperate company now your facts.  An closed mouth gathers no foot.  See you at the movies.

So we finally have an honest to goodness employee chiming in and I'll be darn if he doesn't provide a rebuttal that is based entirely on fantasy and is unsupported by hard data, such as actual budgets, costs, distribution strategy, marketing costs, and other related fees. The other knucklehead that attempts to justify a production fee of 20% on top of the potential 40% commission feels that it takes over $10 million to run the darn lights. That must be one very bright office. The fact is that a movie is being made and we can assume that it is being produced under best efforts, what none of the investors know is the actual costs. No one seems to really know what they are investing in. There are plenty of industry veterans involved in the project, not that any of them have had any real success in the past, but there is some experience at the helm. The weak links seem to be in the funding of the project itself and the nefarious and unresponsive methodology to funding. There is solid verifiable proof that several states have found fault in the companies funding practices. We can assume that there were legal fees incurred and fines paid, but we do not know what those amounts are. There appears to be a big question concerning the amount of commission the sales people are getting and whether Neil Kauffamn and Jeff Urdank are receiving 22% of money raised for the respective companies. Legal document state that a commission of 40% was paid, so we need to base our opinion on those facts. What this boils down to is are the investors paying $60 million to make a $20 million movie. That would be fine if there was clarity and transparency and the investors at least had some small insight into where the money is going. It is all very simple. If it is an honest legitimate business then open the books and show the investors where their money is going. What is it realistically going to take in box office revenue to break even? How much is being spent on advertising and who is doing it? How many theaters will it play in and what about outside the United States. There was a lot of talk about all this other big stuff they were doing along with the movie but it seems like that has all put on the back burner, cancelled or maybe never existed.  There does not seem to be anyone associated with the funding that has any legitimate and practical business knowledge. They seem to have the panache of car salesmen and the verve of Amway reps. these are not MBA’s. I think we can all agree on that. If you read some of the comments it is apparent that those that are stating concern are logical, analytical, and basing their opinions on the public records of several states and the Private Placement Memorandum. The rebuttals in support of the business are a notch above an incoherent rumble and the ignorance of a country rube. At the end of the day some may deserve to lose their money but others should stand strong and demand fair accounting.

These guys just got busted by the state of California for the 5th time, and this time California investors who got swindled between November 2009 and January 2011 will actually be able to get their money back, together with hefty fines for the perpetrators. In addition to all the obvious problems with these novice moviemakers, experienced fundraisers, proven failures in the movie making industry, yet successes in the money making scams, is the problem of the recent ruling in favor of Warner Bros by the 8th DCA which will most likely impair all 9 of the OZ movies currently in production in favor of the Warner Bros project. If you’re in California run and get your money before these guys fold up shop.

http://www.corp.ca.gov/ENF/pdf/a/AlpinePictures_Stipulation.pdf

Ok MSK or others who think this is a scam, I would like to use you as my devils advocate.  It seems to me that the movie is getting made, so its not as though they have left town with the money.  Since at least some of the money raised is in fact being spent on the movie, doesn't the question become how well the money is being spent.  If they spend more than they need to to make the movie doesn't that make them poor businessmen/producers and not necessarily crooks or frauds.  As far as the any laws that were broken, it seems that they broke the law in how they raised the money, not in how they have spent it.  At looking at the cease and desist orders it looks like even though there are multiple States involved, each of the cases brought against Dorothy of OZ are really from the same event.  They used a telemarketing firm that solicited money from non-accredited investors which is in violation of each states securities laws.  I am sure they attempted to raise the money in every state that they could and since they did it illegally they could conceivably have 50 cease and desists even though it was really only one attempt to raise money.  An unlicensed person attempting to raise money by selling a security/ownership interest in a company is illegal, but it is not necessarily fraud.  And it happens thousands of times a day every time anyone asks a friend or family member to invest in the next great thing.  Yes?

The state of California issued several cease and desist orders and injunctions against the defendants, each as a result of separate violations. The defendants continued to sell these securities after the Nov 9, 2010 cease and desist order (the 60% commission is just too much of a temptation). Each state’s cease and desist order is based on separate violations within that state. These US and State regulations exist in order to protect the unsophisticated and the gullible from these types of high risk investments designed to separate the simple from their money. Don’t believe the lies; the issue is not about an unlicensed person selling the securities, but that these securities are not to be sold by anyone to non-accredited investors. Look up their SEC form D. Having said that, there is no accredited investor who would invest a dollar in anything with a 60% up-front fee. I was told by one of these dealers that the company had many people who wanted to fund the entire project but the company did not want to pay a “lion’s share of the profits” to a single person. Translation: no single person would invest 50 million dollars and agree to pay 30 million in up front commissions. So you see the only way these guys can make this kind of money while experimenting with their first whole load of watermelon (these guys are not very good movie makers and will be competing against major studios OZ projects, against people who control the movie market with a copyright infringment ruling possible) is by raising it form very trusting, hopeful, inexperienced, unsophisticated, fact ignoring, gullible, simple investors. If you refuse to learn or comprehend this, then you and all of your money will soon be parted.