8884202510

Go to http://www.ascensionpoint.com/ and you will find a link to Better Business Bureau at the bottom of their page. You can file complaints from there to the BBB on their practices. I received my 1st call today - on a message machine - I'll wait and see if I get more calls.

Wow.  I'm so glad I did research about this company.  Your posts are all I needed to see to confirm my suspicions about the calls.  In my case, they called family members across several states which was a red flag.  They'll get what they deserve.  Thanks!

I went to the Ascension Point website and they do have the Better Business Bureau icon on their home page.  If you click on the icon, you can see the details of how long they have been accredited etc.  Of course, if Ascension Point has been unfair, misleading or inappropriate with you in their attempts to collect money, then you should use that BBB icon to document it and file a complaint so that the BBB (and the public) is made aware.

yes, they have left numerous messages.  I have not returned any calls.  my oldest sister finally received a call.  i told her i googled ascension point and found this.  Our mom died in October.  This is harassment to no end.

I got a message from Ascension Point from this number.  They are asking for the party handling the affairs of Timothy Timbrook.  This is a scam.   I have never heard this name before.  This has become very irritating.  The odd thing is, I have had similar messages for a 'Timothy Timbrook' from other toll free numbers like this.

AscensionPoint Recovery Services, LLC
200 [***] Rapids Blvd. Suite 200
[***] Rapids, MN 55433-5876
ph: 888-420-2510
Fax Number: 763-235-4055

You’re Dead? That Won’t Stop the Debt Collector

Published: March 3, 2009
MINNEAPOLIS — The banks need another bailout and countless homeowners cannot handle their mortgage payments, but one group is paying its bills: the dead.

Dozens of specially trained agents work on the third floor of DCM Services here, calling up the dear departed’s next of kin and kindly asking if they want to settle the balance on a credit card or bank loan, or perhaps make that final utility bill or cellphone payment.

The people on the other end of the line often have no legal obligation to assume the debt of a spouse, sibling or parent. But they take responsibility for it anyway.

“I am out of work now, to be honest with you, and money is very tight for us,” one man declared on a recent phone call after he was apprised of his late mother-in-law’s $280 credit card bill. He promised to pay $15 a month.

Dead people are the newest frontier in debt collecting, and one of the healthiest parts of the industry. Those who dun the living say that people are so scared and so broke it is difficult to get them to cough up even token payments.

Collecting from the dead, however, is expanding. Improved database technology is making it easier to discover when estates are opened in the country’s 3,000 probate courts, giving collectors an opportunity to file timely claims. But if there is no formal estate and thus nothing to file against, the human touch comes into play.

New hires at DCM train for three weeks in what the company calls “empathic active listening,” which mixes the comforting air of a funeral director with the nonjudgmental tones of a friend. The new employees learn to use such anger-deflecting phrases as “If I hear you correctly, you’d like...”

“You get to be the person who cares,” the training manager, Autumn Boomgaarden, told a class of four new hires.

For some relatives, paying is pragmatic. The law varies from state to state, but generally survivors are not required to pay a dead relative’s bills from their own assets. In theory, however, collection agencies could go after any property inherited from the deceased.

But sentiment also plays a large role, the agencies say. Some relatives are loyal to the credit card or bank in question. Some feel a strong sense of morality, that all debts should be paid. Most of all, people feel they are honoring the wishes of their loved ones.

“In times of illness and death, the hierarchy of debts is adjusted,” said Michael Ginsberg of Kaulkin Ginsberg, a consulting company to the debt collection industry. “We do our best to make sure our doctor is paid, because we might need him again. And we want the dead to rest easy, knowing their obligations are taken care of.”

Finally, of course, some of those who pay a dead relative’s debts are unaware they may have no legal obligation.

Scott Weltman of Weltman, Weinberg & Reis, a Cleveland law firm that performs deceased collections, says that if family members ask, “we definitely tell them” they have no legal obligation to pay. “But is it disclosed upfront — ‘Mr. Smith, you definitely don’t owe the money’? It’s not that blunt.”

DCM Services, which began in 1999 as a law firm, recently acquired clients in banking, automobile finance, retailing, telecommunications and health care; DCM says its contracts preclude it from naming them.

The companies “want to protect their brand,” said DCM’s chief executive, Steven Farsht. Despite the delicacy of such collections, he says his 180-employee firm is providing a service to the economy. “The financial services industry is under a tremendous amount of pressure, and every dollar we collect improves their profitability,” he said.

To listen to even a small sample of DCM’s calls — executives played tapes of 10 of them for a reporter, electronically edited to remove all names — is to reveal the wages of misery, right down to the penny.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/04/business/04 ... 1&sq=dcm&st=cse

March 11, 2009

Chairman Jon Leibowitz
Federal Trade Commission
600 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20580

Dear Chairman Leibowitz:

I am dismayed to learn from recent media reports that some debt collection companies have made it a practice to attempt to collect unpaid credit card balances – and perhaps other types of unsecured debts – from the families of the deceased. According to numerous reports, these companies call surviving relatives, often shortly after the death of a loved one, to coax or cajole them into making payments on the deceased relative’s credit card.  To say the least, this practice is distasteful and unethical.  Moreover, this practice may very well violate the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.  I am hereby requesting that the Federal Trade Commission investigate whether debt collection companies are violating the law when they engage in this practice, and exactly what information they are conveying to surviving relatives who are under no obligation to pay off their loved ones’ credit cards.

The Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, among its many prohibitions, prevents debt collectors from contacting anyone other than the credit card holder without the prior consent of the holder.  Specifically, the Act provides that “a debt collector may not communicate, in connection with the collection of any debt, with any person other than the consumer, his attorney, a consumer reporting agency if otherwise permitted by law, the creditor, the attorney of the creditor, or the attorney of the debt collector.”  “Consumer” is defined in the Act as a “natural person” who owes a debt.  If this language does not apply to a situation in which the consumer is deceased, I would like to know the basis for such an opinion.  

I find it shocking that a debt collection company would determine that it is worth causing profound anguish and embarrassment in order to collect debts that are sometimes as low as $50, or which result in a payment of $15 a month from a widow or widower who is struggling to make ends meet. If a debt is large enough to be worth collecting, there are legal ways to obtain payment.  First, if a surviving family member has also signed for the card, that family member will be obligated to pay the debt.  Second, an unsecured creditor such as a credit card issuer can obtain payment from the estate of the deceased through a routine probate proceeding, after the holders of secured debt – such as mortgagors– are paid.  This practice of harassing living family members for upfront payments results in putting credit card issuers in the front of the line to get money from an estate, rather than after those who hold secured debt.

Given the current economic situation, in which millions of honest, hard-working Americans are struggling to meet their obligations, this practice is opportunistic and destructive.

In addition to opening an investigation into these practices, I would like the answers to the following questions:

Which debt collection companies (“collectors”) are engaging in the practice of collecting credit card debt from widows, widowers, children, and other relatives of the deceased?

Which credit card issuers are hiring these collectors, or selling their debts to these collectors?  Have the issuers endorsed this practice, either by turning a blind eye toward it or by specifically encouraging it?  

Does the practice of trying to collect unsecured debts from the living relatives of debtors who have passed on violate the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act’s prohibition on communicating with third parties?  If not, why not?  What measures could be taken to make sure that these practices are stopped?

If these practices are currently legal, are these collectors uniformly making sure that they tell living relatives that they have no legal obligation to pay the debt?  Further, are the collectors informing the living relatives of the statute of limitations for collecting these debts?  Are the collectors informing the living relatives that any credit card debt would be paid from the estate only after other secured debts, such as mortgage and car payments, are paid?

Given that the FTC receives more complaints about debt collection companies than any other American business, I hope and expect that you will be thorough in your investigation of this matter.


Sincerely,

Charles E. Schumer
United States Senator

http://schumer.senate.gov/new_website/record.cfm?id=309474

The debt collectors are behaving badly again. This time they're hitting up surviving family members for money that's owed by the dead!

The New York Times reports that some collection agencies specialize in this somewhat morbid pursuit. Collectors even receive "sensitivity" training to deal with grieving relatives. They'll speak in hushed tones on the phone like a funeral director and refer you to a legitimate grief counselor if necessary.

In most cases, you have no legal obligation to assume the debt of a late spouse, sibling or parent. But the collectors will never tell you that.

The only states where there is a possibility that a surviving spouse may have some responsibility for a debt are "community property states" -- Arizona, California, Idaho, Louisiana, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas, Washington and Wisconsin.

In such states, an executor/executrix or administrator (in the event there is no will) may be responsible for assessing the estate to see if there's money to pay out to creditors.

But in general, if you get a call from these slimeballs, know that you likely don't owe them a penny.

http://clarkhoward.com/shownotes/category/12/103/358/

Want them to stop calling

I've been receiving recorded calls from this number for over a month.  They want to talk to the person handling the estate of (a foreign name that I can't understand).

I finally listened to the entire message and pressed 2 indicating they had the wrong person.  That's when I got the phone number.

Thank you for the information.  I am currently receiving calls re: my deceased father and I was unsure if I should call them back or not...because of your post, I will not.  Thank you.

Ascension Point. She said she was calling about the late Aileen Bunn and needed to talk to a Family member. Unfortunately my grandmother past away a few years ago and I knew this sounded odd for someone to call me for anything to do with her affairs because even though I was close, I didn't handle the finances.

Can't believe that someone from Ascension Point would call me to try to get information about my deceased EX husband's estate when we were DIVORCED OVER 20 YEARS AGO, and then have the nerve to call me a whiner...geezus......My bills ARE paid... these aren't my bills.... Shut the F*** up.

I just received an automated call about my deceased ex husband. We have been divorced for 4 years and I'm not sure how they got m cell # except from his life insurance policy. He doesn't have an estate and the 45 day waiting period was over last week. If he owed anyone money it's too late to do anything about it. It isn't my debt and I'm not about to talk to them about his debt.

Hey Ascension Point - I don't have a problem paying my bills, but I'm getting calls from you trying to collect on the the dead-beat "lady" I bought my house from.  That's going too far.  I've already called your 888 number, left a detailed message re: the person's name and my phone number.  I've explained that I bought the house from her 6 years ago and know nothing about her, AND STILL I'm getting calls from AP.  I'll stop my whining if you take care of your messages and stop calling me.  And by the way, if you ever do get any money from her estate, pass some my way for the money she owes me!

I have recieved many calls from this number but the one I got early this morning I finally returned their call and told them to take me off their calling list. The lady said they only had one estte name and the rest of the call came from some one else. I tried to tell her that it was the same phone number but she insisted it wasn't. We will see if I get any more calls.

Do not believe Amy.  First, AscensionPoint will not stop contacting any family member of a deceased relative regardless of the presence of an estate.  The goal of AscensionPoint is to get one family member to fall into what Amy calls a "mini miranda" and compromise themselves into accepting responsibility.  This is done by recording the phone call and the collector asking leading questions in an attempt to coherse the inocent family member to be held liable.  This attempt sure skims the surface of a scam and its legality worthy of a judicial attention, but until then AscensionPoint will continue its practice.  A first step to remedy this matter is to write a letter to AscensionPoint to cease and desist and a letter to the appropriate stae agency responsible for overseeing these types of businesses.  Get both letters notorized ($15).  Why?  Because, it means that you mean business.  Explain nothing to AscensionPoint in your letter, other than, for example, "AscensionPoint is to cease and desist its attempt to associate "your name" with an estate of a deseased person and its unsettled debts.  Further, AscensionPoint is to cease and desist any further contacts of all manners of communication.  A copy of this letter will be shared with the State Attorney Generals Office of my state."    AscensionPoint will likely just go down the list of the next family member to harrass in hopes to find that one fool.

I too received a call from these guys.  Armed with the information I had read here, I called back ready to battle.  Instead, the person I spoke with was very polite.  He explained they were trying to reach the person handling my deceased father's affairs.  I answered that my father passed intestate and assetless.  He politely said he would inform his client and remove my number from their system and thanked me for returning the call.

We have received several calls from this company and they always want to speak to the person in charge of the estate of my husbands deceased father, he died 23 years ago. Thank you for these postings we almost called and now i know better than to call them back. Appreciated!!

Thanks for having this info up. I have been recieving these calls and it made us suspicious because they wanted the person handling the "estate" of my dad who did not have anything, therefore had no estate. I was advised by a friend in the legal business when my mom died that i was not responsible for her debt. I am glad that this site had some info on who these people are, though before i returned their call and got pestered for life! thank you 800notes.com

I've gotten three calls today from Ascension Point (Troy @ 888-420-2510 ext.4268) looking for the woman who lives next door.

After reading this thread, should I bother giving her the message or not?

You are one inconsiderate hombre, no hijo.