Keep getting home improvement scam calls. Decided to have a little fun with one of them.

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Remember, I'm not "competition", I'm a "customer". Since they want a assure me of their legitimacy, there's no reason why they wouldn't tell me how they got the referral. It's not like HA is a big secret, either.

Your not a customer UNTIL you hire them, so do you hire them just to ask about referrals? If your asking about how they knew you wanted their service before the hiring process, well, that IS how competitors phish info on a more successful Contractor.
HA might not be a big secret, but a competitor might not know that its a good Lead source until its shown to them.

I'm not trying to discourage you, just don't see how the "average" potential customer would go about putting the pressure on a Contractor enough to cause a ripple effect or poison the well, where telemarketers are actually impacted enough to stop or at least slow down on the calling. Sales people are skilled at smoke screening and the average person is not skilled enough to convince the Contractors their Leads aren't worth the money they paid.

I've been trying to picture how the conversation would start and at what point in the contact process it should take place for the average person to initiate it. As the saying goes, "the devil is in the details".

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Unfortunately, I don't think HA really cares about the complaints. There are tons of bad complaints for them on BBB and they are still getting contractors to sign up.

For a successful marketing campaign, no, complaints don't hurt them at all, since many people complain about things they "formulated" as a reason they didn't like the service, not always honest in their details or they don't follow it up to resolution. Thats another example of how the "average" consumer handles things.

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Your not a customer UNTIL you hire them, so do you hire them just to ask about referrals?

Pedantic, but true. So they believe me to be a potential customer - because they think the lead is legitimate. They believe I contacted HA to get work done, so they openly volunteer that they got my number from HA in order to insure that I can trust them - and they aren't some fly-by-night place blind calling people (like the people that originally contacted me). All the ones that contacted me stated right up front they got my info from HA - thinking I had directly contacted HA in some form to request work be completed.

While it's true, I could be a contractor and request work in HA and see who calls me, but I wouldn't need to ask them in that case. I could sign up as Charles De Gaulle and see who asks for that name. I wouldn't need to ask where they got the referral - just the fact that asked for Charles would tell me. So I don't think there's any "secret" that contractor us HA/etc that they feel paranoid enough to protect.

The pressure is that they are paying money for the referrals. Money is a good motivator. In fact, it's money that motivates telemarketers. I'm right up front with the contractors, too, and tell them the lead violated the DNC and I just wanted to know where they got it. That there is no work for you here. You wasted your money because HA has bad business practices. Make the telemarketing be a money deficit rather than a revenue.

What will work is volume. Just me complaining has almost no impact. If I sue, that would have little impact. If I complain to the FTC, that has little impact. We all know that 1 person, regardless what they do, has little impact. It takes more people. We need to stop rewarding the telemarketers by hanging up on them and not answering. That's what they want - and they have built a profitable business model on our complacency. We need to identify them. Make them known. Make those that use them known. Make it no longer work for them.

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Sales people are skilled at smoke screening

I'm not talking to sales people, except the initial boiler room violating the DNC. And they aren't that sophisticated. The resulting calls are from contractors wanting work - and finding there is none.

HA has lots of complaints on their BBB page and others. Frankly, I'm surprised they can get new contractors to sign up given what I've read. But as I noted before - right now it's just bad leads and poor customer service. Leads where the phone doesn't answer. Leads where the person has selected another contractor. Leads that aren't for the type of service the contractor provides. In general - just poor quality. I'd love it if more contractors had people told them the lead violated the DNC. Let those comments from contractors start making into the BBB complaints.

If that doesn't work, maybe the next step will be to write bad reviews for the contractors. With as many consumers reading Google Reviews, Yelp, etc, maybe that would get their attention.

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All the ones that contacted me stated right up front they got my info from HA - thinking I had directly contacted HA in some form to request work be completed.

Well, thats a given as they would have expected you to have gone through HA, so thats the no secret part. You mentioned before they gave you in-depth info, such as the amount they pay($100) and how you told them you purposely falsified info to a Telemarketer for a Phishing expeditition on who calls..... that cost the Contractor. If I were the Contractor, I wouldn't just give up that  to the average caller, in fact I would be considering a Law suit and you would be a potential Defendant.
Heres the kicker: Every time you (and anyone else) goes on a Phishing Expedition from a Telemarketer call and comes back as from HA, HA gets paid! Its not just that one Contractor either, HA sends/charges several Contractors the same Leads if they Match the prospect. So if they charged $100 for the Lead and 3 Contractors are sent the Lead, they just made $300 off your phishing trip!

I don't know how much you know about how HA works, but heres a little info I found last time I went researching for info on HA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HomeAdvisor

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/youve-heard-co ... works-deane-mba

The Contractor knows this much , without anyone pointing it out to them:
Good Lead = A Sale
Bad Lead = No Sale
So how is anyone going to convince them to not use HA (or similar) because they generate  leads illegally? The Contractor who already knows if its worth keeping them or not by how much they make off the Leads.

Whats better, getting consumers to convince Contractors not to use these type Lead generators or tell the consumer not to use them?  Its the consumer who is their source of revenue because they Advertise they will match your project to a professional contractor and thats where their main generation for Leads comes from...not from shady telemarketers. Contractors just add the cost of the Lead to the customer and pass the buck to them anyway.

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If that doesn't work, maybe the next step will be to write bad reviews for the contractors.

No, not on the contractors, unless they did a bad job.  They only ones to be affected by that would be the Contractors, not the real problem source...HA! Its not the Contractors who are telemarketer calling, because they could simply eliminate the "middle-man" if they did and save themselves that Lead cost.
Do a search on " HomeAdvisor reviews" and look at the places the "positive reviews" are posted. Hit them where it will count the most.
Public awareness will serve much better to put an end to their illegal methods by showing  their shady practices. HA advertises that they do background checks and thoroughly check out Contractors.
The one YouTube I saw was about them having a Contractor that was sued 7 times and did a nasty job. A Investigative News story confronted HA and they removed the listing. 2 weeks later the same Contractor was back on their listsing under a different name.

Like I said before, I admire your passion for going after them, but I just think your focusing too much on the wrong path. While I'm sure there a lot of 'handy-man specials" for Contractors, theres probably more legitimate ones that would get the short end of the stick and thats still not going to stop the lead generator machine from getting more.

Thank you for your insights. I must disagree a bit with your statement that an individual suing an individual contractor has little or no effect. It has been my experience that HA and others typically sell a lead to four contractors, who then all begin jamming your telephone line in order to be the first contractor to call you. If you sue four contractors, at some point several of them will retain attorneys who will make a demand to HA for indemnity for selling the contractor a bad lead with a call placed to a telephone number registered on the National Do Not Call Registry. Suing several contractors means that HA will either indemnify the contractors or face their wrath in negative comments to the BBB as well as for refund requests.

The contractors buying leads from HA typically are much more upfront about the actual name of their construction company, as compared to other contractors who use extremely generic names such as "Home Design Center," etc. the latter telemarketing contractors quite often have purchased the lead lists from Haynes Criss-Cross, or some other data broker. Many times it has been necessary to set up an appointment to see who actually shows up from the "Home Design Center." It is important to get at least their business card, but preferably a proposed contract, and the license plate # of the vehicle they drove to the fact – finding appointment.

It is unfortunate that not enough people have complained to the FTC about Home Advisor and other similar lead sellers. It would probably take a critical mass of complaints for the FTC to decide the time was right to take legal action against HA..

Oh almost forgot this important part....

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We need to stop rewarding the telemarketers by hanging up on them and not answering.

That is definitely wrong for this type of telemarketing, because they get paid and  the Lead generator they "launder info" through gets paid. The Contractor and the consumer are the ones who lose.

We need to stop answering and rewarding them with information they are only going to profit on, false  or real. Perfect example of why people shouldn't answer unknown callers and SHOULD hang up on them if they do.

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It is unfortunate that not enough people have complained to the FTC about Home Advisor and other similar lead sellers. It would probably take a critical mass of complaints for the FTC to decide the time was right to take legal action against HA..

and

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We need to stop answering and rewarding them with information they are only going to profit on, false  or real.

These two concepts are diametrically opposed to each other. And it's no secret which direction I tend to follow. We want the FTC to do something. Yet at the same time we want to not answer the call and gain information that worth complaining about. I want to see that critical mass.

Yes, a contractor told me that he paid $100 for the lead, because he was upset at losing $100. But it certainly wasn't the first time, since from other contractors, that's currently the least of the reasons the leads are bad. Contractors do charge back on bad leads. They do cancel credit cards to keep HA from continuing to the charge them. Some of them eventually file a complaint with BBB, and only then maybe they get a refund.

However, given the number of times I've been called, and that there's a forum topic here, the number of times others have been called, it's a problem. So I want to make the Contractors more upset with them than they already are. If they get 5 leads, and all 5 end up complaining that they were on the DNC list, that's going to get back to HA. Contractors are going to want their money back. So while HA might think they have a short-term gain, it should be a long-term loss. Again, one or two isn't going to have much sway. But a lot more will. We need that critical mass.

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The Contractor and the consumer are the ones who lose.

The consumer already loses because of the telemarketing. The Contractor has options like charge backs, etc to negate their losses. We just need to give them the tools and information. That's why I tell the contractors why this is a bad lead. Yes, HA would love pay some foreign telemarketing firm for invalid leads. Then charge contractors for those bad leads. Then get hit with charge-backs for each and every one of those bad leads. That's where I want it to go. Then the telemarketing becomes an expense, and not a profit. Then they will stop.

If that's still not enough, then leaving bad reviews for the contractors as well may be required. If the contractors don't care if the leads are illicitly generated and they continue, they deserve that. I'm not at the point to believe that yet.

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The consumer already loses because of the telemarketing.

The Consumer loses because they go to these Lead generators, willingly give up contact info and perpetuate the Leads.
The Consumer loses because they pay those Contractors in the end for those Leads.
The Consumer loses nothing when a telemarketer calls if you don't talk to them, Telemarketing calls are mostly just an annoyance in our everyday lives.

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The Contractor has options like charge backs, etc to negate their losses.

From what I understand, the Contractor is made aware there are no refunds for Leads. Sure, I have no doubt "some" have managed to get reimbursed for a bad lead. I'm sure they did that without anyone pointing out it was a bad lead they would never have been able to get a job from and HA didn't even feel in their checkbook either.

They are buying a Lead, not a tangible product. Contractors SHOULD know that nobody can guarantee a Sale and all Leads could potentially be a no sale for them, since they are competing with other Contractors that might get it. I read plenty of those 'complaints' on the BBB and YouTube and the majority complain they got bad Leads they didn't know they had to pay for. The Contractor SHOULD know its an acceptable loss calculated in when they choose to sign up for those Leads. They SHOULD know what a Lead means, that it is an opportunity to get a job form someone who is looking for their type of service...nothing more! They still have to "sell" it to the consumer...yes, they ARE Sales people who call from a Lead.

Its a misunderstanding on the Contractors part for thinking they are buying a Customer when its something they should already know is not a guarantee...unless HA makes the Sale and signed a Contract for them. Those are the small time contractors that are just mad it didn't work out for them and they lost money they will never get back. Its those Contractors that go around the internet and make complaints, which are worthless towards discouraging anyone from using HA.
Now there are bad Contractors who are taking advantage of the HA marketing system to get jobs they would otherwise never be able to get and don't care what anyone tells them, because they are making money off those Leads. Then there are good Contractors who make enough money and MIGHT listen to you, but doubt they will abandon their money maker because someone calls and wants them to know a telemarketer called them illegally.

So while your on your crusade of trying to stop the big Lead Generators from making or paying for illegal telemarketing, your making Contractors pay them, not knowing who your hurting. You say your giving them the "tools and information" they need, but in reality all your giving them is a needless expense and hoping that will be enough to generate an out rage.

Even IF HA is behind all the telemarketing, its such a small percentage compared to the percentage of consumers who GO TO them to perpetuate their Lead Generation, attracting even more Contractors! Your fighting a dragon with an endless fuel supply, using a water pistol.

I agree it sounds plausible IF more people also joined in with their water pistols, but its never going to put out the fire thats being generated. It seems to me that trying to make the Contractor the target for stopping the lead generator's telemarketing by making it money is just counter productive and will only go in circles.

Nothing wrong with wishful thinking I guess. All I can say is good luck with the crusade.

So I should talk to the telemarketers  and help them make money.
Am I the only one who views that as a shill move?

Give fake info so the homeadvisor people make money off the contractor.
Am I the only one who thinks thats scammish?

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Give fake info so the homeadvisor people make money off the contractor.
Am I the only one who thinks thats scammish?

Let the contractor know why there is no job, and that the lead violated the DNC. The contractors will and do get their money back from HA. Interesting that so many people think the contractors will just happily accept that the lead was bad and take the loss and allow HA to profit. They won't.

As has been noted, money is a good motivator. It's bad enough when they suspect that HA is scamming them with the leads. It's different when they've got confirmation they have been scammed with the leads.

~The contractors will and do get their money back from HA~

Not according to the complaints i read they don't. Money is a good motivator, so why help telemarkting thrive by motivating it  with contractor money?

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It's different when they've got confirmation they have been scammed with the leads.

So your scamming them to teach them a lesson?

Maybe its the contractors who are making those telemarket calls and thats a good way to get back at them if it costs them more to lose then they get from calling.

I believe the intent is to make sellers understand what is going on when they hire these telescum. The goal is that these sellers would eventually get the hint that they are paying for leads that were gotten in violation of the TCPA.  Yelling at them does no good, asking them to stop calling you does no good and reporting them to the FCC does nothing. Hitting them in the pocketbook gets their attention.  I know of people who will actually have them come out for a visit and then when they arrive either won't answer the door or ask "You're who?"

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I believe the intent is to make sellers understand what is going on when they hire these telescum.

So the goal is to make the lead sellers understand that telemarketing is profitable? That looks like the lesson they will learn and not care if a few contractors drop off in the process.