fraud\scam or good service??

Mike Reilly is an American and Canadian football quarterback currently playing for the Edmonton Eskimos of the Canadian Football League. He was signed by the Pittsburgh Steelers as an undrafted free agent in 2009.

Well, according to the BBB, you did have something to do with Silverthorn & Lupolover, LLP in Canada. The BBB says that Silverthorn & Lupolover, LLP was acquired by Cockburn & Associate on Aug. 8, 2012. And the same BBB page shows that someone named Mr. Michael Reilly was the "Customer Contact" person.

In fact, there is evidence that shows that there is still a law office headed by Mark Anthony Silverthorn in Kitchener, ON, and a Cockburn & Associate headed by Shelia Annette Cockburn on Yonge St. in Toronto. That can be checked out at The Law Society of Upper Canada Lawyer and Paralegal Directory at:
http://www2.lsuc.on.ca/LawyerParalegalDirectory/index.jsp
(main page: http://www.lsuc.on.ca/index.aspx )

So perhaps you DID have something to do with explaining at least the Silverthorn & Lupolover LLP contracts to potential clients. Perhaps you would like to be more specific in explaining one of their contracts to us. Here is a link to what purports to be a copy of a contract that Silverthorn & Lupolover, LLP had its clients sign and some commentary about it:

http://getoutofdebt.org/34404/silverthorn-lup ... contract-review

Is this an accurate copy of the contract that you had either Canadians or U.S. citizens sign? Would you disagree with the interpretation of the contract by Steve Rhode on this site?

If you were offering this contract in the United States as a law firm, I sincerely doubt that you would be able to get away with it. The contract contains a term under "NOTICE OF CANCELLATION" that, "By canceling this Agreement you are terminating your relationship with Silverthorn & Lupolover, Lawyers, LLP, 30 Duke Street West, Suite 1001, Kitchener, Ontario N2H 3W5, and you specifically waive, release and hold Silverthorn & Lupolover, Lawyers, LLP, harmless from any and all claims arising from this Agreement."

But the ABA model rules has a prohibition against that, and those rules are adopted by most jurisdictions across the US:

"Client-Lawyer Relationship
Rule 1.8 Conflict Of Interest: Current Clients: Specific Rules
...
(h) A lawyer shall not:
(1) make an agreement prospectively limiting the lawyer's liability to a client for malpractice unless the client is independently represented in making the agreement; or
(2) settle a claim or potential claim for such liability with an unrepresented client or former client unless that person is advised in writing of the desirability of seeking and is given a reasonable opportunity to seek the advice of independent legal counsel in connection therewith."

(From
http://www.americanbar.org/groups/professiona ... ific_rules.html )

But is Silverthorn and Lupolover, Lawyers, LLP, a law firm that would be covered by this ethical rule? Well, first of all, they SAY they are lawyers. It's in their name, fer cryin' out loud!

Also, paragraph 4 of the agreement, under "CLIENT OBLIGATIONS," says:

"S&L is a law firm and charges fees for its services as set out in this Service Agreement."

So they REALLY want you to take them seriously as a law firm.

But, I also see a clause 13 entitled "Final and Only Agreement," which says in all capital letters:

"NO VERBAL OR WRITTEN STATEMENTS OR PROMISES THAT ARE NOT CONTAINED HEREIN SHOULD BE RELIED ON AT ANY TIME BY CLIENT. THIS AGREEMENT REPRESENTS THE SOLE AND FINAL AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE PARTIES."

And I see no advice "in writing of the desirability" of the current or former client party of seeking "the advice of independent legal counsel in connection" with respect to settling claims or potential claims against Silverthorn & Lupolover, Lawyers LLP.

Were you sending any of these contracts to US clients in the United States?

And what good is a law firm that tells its client, as part of paragraph 4, "CLIENT OBLIGATIONS," that "S&L" is a law firm and charges fees for its services out of this agreement. We determine your eligibility for a debt settlement program, but we do NOT [emphasis in original] evaluate your unique credit and debt situation to determine the best debt relief option for you." ?!???

How come you are telling everyone in your contract (which includes an integration clause making all your verbal and other written assurances meaningless and unenforceable) that you DON'T evaluate their unique credit and debt situation, and then say to everyone here that you DO and advise that paying off one's debts is better than bankruptcy?

It sounds to me as though the law firm is more interested in representing and protecting itself than the client. That's OK to a certain extent, but in the U.S., there are rules that have the force of law that I think would prohibit your firm's use of an engagement contract like this. You are supposed to have malpractice insurance to cover yourself.

Speaking of the U.S., the BBB report on Cockburn and Associate (which doesn't show your name under "Client Support," by the way), shows only two addresses. One is located in Mississauga, ON L5N 6H5, and the other is located on Yonge St. in Toronto, ON M5C 1X6. However, if you visit the web site for this law firm, you will see it is titled, "Law Office of Cockburn & Associate, "Debt Settlement for Canadians." http://www.clegal.ca/

Yet, under "About Us" at http://www.clegal.ca/about , you will see:

"Leadership
Shelia Cockburn Esq.
"... Ms. Cockburn, a protégé of Mark Silverthorn and has over 8 years of legal experience dealing with litigation and prosecution matters in the areas of debt collections, business transactions and intellectual property. ...
Ms. Cockburn is licensed to practice law in the U.S. and Canada."

There is no "license to practice law in the U.S." that I am aware of. You can be registered to practice in the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO), but that isn't a license to "practice law." People who are licensed in the USPTO without being licensed by a particular state are called "patent agents." People who licensed in the USPTO and who are licensed by at least one state are called "patent attorneys." Otherwise, people are licensed by STATES (or the local D.C. Bar), not the entire U.S.  Thus, one can be licensed in D.C., or New Jersey, etc., but NOT the entire United States.  Even if you confine your practice to arguing in the U.S. Supreme Court. 

In any event, the web site actually lists a New Jersey office under "Contact Us." http://www.clegal.ca/contact :
USA
180 Sylvan Avenue, 2nd floor
Englewood Cliffs, NJ 07632
Direct Office # 862-200-7911

I wonder if the associate here isn't Michael Lupolover from Silverthorn & Lupolover, LLP? Looking up the address on Google, you will find this address listed by the BBB as "Law Office of Michael Lupolover, 180 Sylvan Ave Ste 5, Englewd Clfs, NJ 07632, with one Mr. Michael Reilly as "Customer Contact." However, the BBB also comments,
"Licensing
The business claims that the firm is not principally engaged in debt settlement, but their web site states that the company is a debt relief law firm. As such, the firm is required register with the NJ Department of Banking as a Debt Adjuster. As of March 17, 2011, BBB is unable to verify a Debt Adjuster license for the company."
http://www.bbb.org/new-jersey/business-review ... fs-nj-90085778/

For what it is worth, I can't find such a license, either. See:
https://www16.state.nj.us/DOBI_LicSearch/bnkSearch.jsp
and search for license type, "Debt Adjuster."

Of course, there are strict regulations over who can get a debt adjuster's license in New Jersey. For one, they have to be a nonprofit corporation. See FAQ #2 at
http://www.state.nj.us/dobi/banklicensing/debtadjusterfaq.html

"2. Can any person, corporation, or other business entity qualify to be licensed as a debt adjuster?
No, only a nonprofit corporation can be licensed as a debt adjuster."

A licensed attorney may, under some circumstances, be exempt from the New Jersey law requiring licensing as a debt adjuster. See FAQ #4 at the above link:

"4. Are there any exemptions to the licensure requirement:
Yes. Pursuant to N.J.S.A. 17:16G-1c(2) the following persons shall not be deemed to be debt adjusters:
(a) an attorney-at-law of this State who is not principally engaged as a debt adjuster ..."

Now, there is an attorney listing for a Michael A. Lupolover in New Jersey, but NOT for Mrs. Cockburn:

MICHAEL A LUPOLOVER
NJ Attorney ID : 033712007
Bar Admission Date : 12/03/2007
City : ENGLEWOOD CLIFFS
State : NJ
County : BERGEN
Phone Number : (201)461-0059

https://njcourts.judiciary.state.nj.us/web15z/AttyPAWeb/pages/home.faces

If I had to, I would guess this is your office and/or your boss, Mr. Michael Reilly.

If Mr. Lupolover is actually acting as a lawyer or a law firm, then engaging in loan modification services of the type you seem to be espousing and engaging in seems to me to be skating on awfully thin ice, according to this Advisory Committee on Professional Ethics Opinion 716, and the Committee on the Unauthorized Practice of Law Opinion 45, Appointed by the Supreme Court of New Jersey, which is found at:
http://www.state.nj.us/dobi/bulletins/ACPE_716_UPL_45_loanmod.pdf

If you really would like to explain yourself and your debt relief program, perhaps you might begin by answering some of the issues raised above, especially as they pertain to your activities out of New Jersey.

How much meth did it take to spew this loquacious tl;dr claptrap?

Watching drug-addled scammers like you squirm on this site can be fun, but you're one in a long disgraceful line and it gets boring after a while.

Here we go....

I did work with S&L for a short period prior to the acquisition so the BBB info is correct.
The firm to my knowledge has been devolved and no longer relevant.

What Mark Silverthorn does for a living is up to Mark Silverthorn.
Sheila Cockburn does manage the affairs of C&A and the firms new office location is the Toronto address.

I have not explained the S&L contract.... I provided the C&A enrollment process.

This is an accurate copy of the S&L Service Agreement and it was only provided to Canadians.

Based on what I have learned over the years I would disagree with a few of Steve's opinions. For the most part Steve relies on a certain amount controversy and no one other than Steve and a few others can really argue that.

You talk a lot about and make reference to the ABA....both S&L and C&A are/were Canadian law firms. How does US law apply?

With a due respect.. The more and more I read the more I wonder why you waisted your time on all this, S&L is history, it was a Canadian law firm. C&A is a Canadian law firm, Shelia is a member of the NY bar and admitted to practice in Ontario, Alberta and Manitoba and a member in good standing in NY and each province.

Michael Lupolover is another story in and of itself. His practice revolves around FDCPA violations in the US and a limited contingency debt relief program...case closed.

Mr. Lupolover is a member of several state bar associations and does have a Foreign Legal Consultant Permit issued by the Law Society of Upper Canada.

I work under the direct supervision of Shelia Cockburn.

Loan modifications, not to my knowledge. Let's keep our eye on the ball shall we.... I'm here for one reason and one reason only, to address any current or former clients that find themselves here based on an Internet query so that I may provide assistance if possible. If that means addressing an individual dispute or simply answering questions I've made myself available.

Best regards,
Mike

If you are only supplying contracts to Canadian residents living in Canada, then I have little more to say as I am not a Canadian.

If you are representing yourself as a debt adjustment company law firm, then I would suggest to anyone you contact within the United States that they may need to have separate representation before signing a contract with your firm.  The reasons they may perhaps need separate counsel are because you may not be licensed to be a debt adjuster in the jurisdiction in which they are located (if that is required, as it is in New Jersey), because they may not be getting the full legal representation they think they are getting, and because there are likely to be non-profit debt adjustment companies that can do what you do, possibly at a fraction of the cost. (If I were Canadian, I would still probably want to have separate representation for these very same reasons.)

But you say the contract was offered only to Canadians, so I just leave my statement above as a precaution for anyone in the United States tempted to use a debt adjustment law firm having its primary office outside the United States and/or that offers its services for a profit.

As to the relevance of U.S. laws, your firm's web site also gives the address of a Cockburn & Associate Law office in New Jersey.  If you are actually holding your services out as a law practice with a U.S. office, then the U.S. office is subject to attorney laws, including ethics laws, of the state in which it is located (e.g., the laws for practicing law without a license), and/or the states in which its attorneys are licensed to practice (e.g., you can confine your practice to New York cases and clients if you are located in New Jersey and you are licensed in New York but not New Jersey).  

In any event, you may want to tell Ms. Cockburn that the registration information on her New York State Courts Attorney Registration may be incorrect and need updating unless she actually keeps a law office with the current registration address in New York State.  The registration says:

"Attorney Detail
as of 09/10/2013
Registration Number:    4479945
SHELIA ANNETTE COCKBURN
COCKBURN LAW P.C.
16 W 23RD ST FL 4
NEW YORK, NY 10010-5230
United States
(New York County)
(646) 395-7997"

http://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/attorney/AttorneySearch

Thus, she may want to update her registration to instead show her office in New Jersey, or to update the web page to show the office in New York.

But if all you do is solicit Canadians (the web site does seem to say that), then go enjoy all the poutine you can eat.  I'm outta here.

I would hope that everyone reading these threads realizes that not-for-profit organizations earn money and that the not-for-profit designation for the most part is a tax status. There has been many a debate regarding this issue which surrounds the original creditors and debt buyers supporting these types of entities as compared to for-profit companies.

A nonprofit organization (US and UK),[1] or not-for-profit organization (UK and others), often called an NPO or simply a nonprofit and non-commercial organization (Russia and CIS[citation needed]), often called an NCO, is an organization that uses surplus revenues to achieve its goals rather than distributing them as profit or dividends. States in the United States defer to the IRS designation conferred under United States Internal Revenue Code Section 501(c), when the IRS deems an organization eligible.[2]
While not-for-profit organizations are permitted to generate surplus revenues, they must be retained by the organization for its self-preservation, expansion, or plans.[3] NPOs have controlling members or boards. Many have paid staff including management, while others employ unpaid volunteers and even executives who work with or without compensation (occasionally nominal).[4] Where there is a token fee, in general, it is used to meet legal requirements for establishing a contract between the executive and the organization.
Designation as a nonprofit and an intent to make money are not related in the United States. This means nothing can be inferred by the declaration. Such inference is the purpose of the Internal Revenue Code, Section 501(c). The extent to which an NPO can generate surplus revenues may be constrained or use of surplus revenues may be restricted.

Ms. Cockburn has a NY address on file for her NY practice, her Canadian practice has both a US and Canadian location and she frequents both facilities.

Best regards
Mike

So I'm assuming the owner or moderators removed the last few posts???

I get removing the post from LMFAO but the rest...why?

Funny, very funny!


Regards,
Mike

Yes, very likely Admin killed the troll post, as promptly as I'd predicted for you. With it fell replies in reaction. No great loss, they were way off topic. Got a problem with how Admin decided that move? There's a "contact" link in every page footer.

You are the one who came here a week ago so concerned about your statistical analysis of the thread commentors and click-clucking because not all of them "were actual clients of either firm". You are the one who wanted everyone to sit quietly and "reserve comment" while you took the floor for an indefinite period, as though any random user could impose a pseudo-Robert's Rules of Order upon a venue which is structured for informal group participation.

I won't start a lecture here on the widespread problem of unrealistic expectations, but I do wonder if you could manage to show a little gratitude when in at least one way the thread has regained the focus I'd thought you felt was lacking.

I am happy that the "trolls" arrogant post was removed.

The post below it served some purpose however, i'm confident it won't take long before I have the opportunity to make my point again.

Thank you Admin!

Mike

Either a fan or Mike must not have been able to make it to his computer and asked his wife to show up and sing high praises of him while attempting to discredit everyone else!

Nice attempt! LOL ... doesn't fly though!

ROFL!  Pot meet kettle..

Mike needs to learn the First Rule of Holes.

Excuse me, Linda. "...by these phonies!" -- WHAT alleged phonies?
I've yet seen anything that Mike has posted that convinces me the "falsehood" posted by ALLEGED "phonies" are, indeed, false.
It seems YOU are the one assuming all of Mike's words are truthful AND complete in the information he is choosing to post. YOU are assuming his analysis is 100% correct and/or that he is making it appear correct.

In fact, I see flaws in information that has already been posted but am withholding comment until
--ALL of the information requested is presented, 
--I have made time for ample review, and
--then Q&A is completed.
Until that point, I have NO reason to change my opinion of the company OR the purported benefits offered their clients.

And your shilling is irrelevant.  Dear.

And this was my point all along...how does anyone know who is who, more importantly, who is real?

The people how don't believe in the service to the left... The people who do to the right... How do you make heads or tails of this?

Mike