fraud\scam or good service??

just who do you think i am? exploiting people..comfy chair...listen to yourselves...i am a client and i am exercising my right to state my opinion. the fact that it doesn't match yours doesn't make me a liar, a thief, or a scammer...i am a stay at home mom with a very hardworking husband, we looked for an avenue to go down to help get us out of debt. we made our choice and it's working for us. i still can't see how it is that you people think you know so much when in fact, all you know how to do is place blame and accusation. useless...no wonder you can never be satisfied with anything...you spend your time and energy fighting with anyone and everyone that doesn't agree with you. i for one, will no longer partake in this...if you don't agree with what i say or my opinion, FINE...but don't accuse me of being or doing things that you have absolutely no proof of...seriously....what is wrong with you? are you really that miserable?

and my above message was in response to Shill Alert...my MISTAKE...i noticed Shill Alert, you used the phrase, 'I CAN ONLY ASSUME' , you do alot of that don't you.....

Hi Kate, I was wondering how you happened to find this web site and start participating in this discussion. People don't generally start Googling phone numbers or business names after they've had satisfactory dealings with them.

Hi Sir Bedevere, people google phone numbers and businesses for all sorts of reasons. i google walmart, zellers, home depot, schools, churches, doctors, dentists, etc.,all the time...enough said....

This site is kind of the complaint department of 800 numbers.    Your "enough said" rings a little hollow.

All sorts of reasons? I've never Googled a phone number when I knew whose number it was. What set of circumstances specifically led you to do so in this case?

} "scamming is getting paid for a job that isn't done"

That is coincidentally a frequent characterization of the "service" delivered by S&L. Their own client contracts imply they can fold paper airplanes all month but you still owe them for their "work".

} "S&L showed genuine compassion"

Another frequently reported aspect ... But then frauds work best when managed with a silver tongue.

} "you people think you know so much when in fact, all you know how to do is place blame and accusation."

You don't know our stories or expertise any better than we know yours. We do know to capitalize the word "I" and the beginnings of sentences.

} "are you really that miserable?"

No, just skeptical. The miserable part comes when I see someone taken for a ride by liars and frauds.

It may be useful to return to that Steve Rhode contract critique for the comments which have arrived since publication. Valid concerns have been raised by other S&L customers, who seem to have done what was asked of them, yet they still got jerked around.

http://getoutofdebt.org/34404/silverthorn-lup ... contract-review

It's also not too clear if the operation is properly seated in Ontario, New Jersey, or Florida.

Damn Canada. An F Already for the Law Offices of Mark Silverthorn?
http://getoutofdebt.org/34358/damn-canada-an- ... ark-silverthorn

Silverthorne & Lupolover – Consumer Complaint – 8-6-2012
http://getoutofdebt.org/44877/silverthorne-lu ... plaint-8-6-2012

In our backyard, complaints indicate that S&L was running a "Rachel"-style telemarketing campaign hawking credit consolidation. Some suggest that S&L took refuge in Canada as US telemarketing regs became more restrictive and/or the company's black marks increased.
https://800notes.com/Phone.aspx/1-416-800-1779/3
https://whocallsme.com/Phone-Number.aspx/2264447875

Not that I put much stock in the triple-B, but its ranking of S&L has not budged from "F" after seven complaints.
http://www.bbb.org/kitchener/business-reviews ... chener-on-19654

New owner Shelia Cockburn was called "a protégé of Mark Silverthorn" in the recent buyout announcement sent to current clients. I'm waiting to see if the "buyout" is really a rebrand, with Silverthorn backseat-driving.

Cockburn & Associate Said to Have Purchased Silverthorn & Lupolover Debt Settlement Clients and Practice
http://getoutofdebt.org/45187/cockburn-associ ... polover-clients

hi, yes we were dealing with silverthorn & lupolover. They took our money  and have done nothing. I have sent an email to  tips@global16x9.com  just waiting to hear from them. If you are doing auto payments to them through your bank, go and stop payments because they are a fraudulent company. they now go by the name of COGBURN AND ASS. LLP. HOPE THIS HAS HELPED

I guess the "F" rating for this firm on the BBB site is justified.

Indeed. There is really no need to do a web search on a number when you already know whose number it is. What is the benefit of Googling the number for Wal-Mart?

With very rare exceptions people web search phone numbers for one of two reasons:
• To investigate who is calling and why and get information about them
• To engage in "reputation management"  

"Kate" couldn't think of a plausible third reason and clearly wasn't motivated by the first. His (and, yes, I think "Kate" is a "him") reason was the second. It's pretty much the only reason you'd search on a number if you already knew who it belonged to (you need only think about your own search habits to realize this).  Unless "she" can concoct a plausible reason why someone might search on a phone number when they already knew its owner there definitely has not been "enough said".

Now online reputation management is (or can be) a legitimate endeavor. Ethical businesses *want* to find out about customer dissatisfaction and correct it. They'll address customer complaints forthrightly and attempt to resolve issues if possible. But like Search Engine Optimization, there are some unethical ways to go about this business as well. Posting praise on a discussion forum like this while pretending to be a satisfied customer certainly falls under that heading. There's no way of knowing whether "Kate" works for the original business or for a reputation management company they hired, but the distinction need not concern us.

Quote: " To engage in "reputation management"  

Yeah, I saw this one coming:  Paid hustlers massaging the reputation of their slimy client for a buck.   If you are so interested in white-washing the reputation of these characters, you better start with the Better Business Bureau in Ontario.  

http://www.bbb.org/kitchener/business-reviews ... chener-on-19654

They got them rated an "F."

Damn!  Sorry, meant to direct that missle at Kate.   Sorry.

To be frank, I hate believing a story without knowing the facts. There are all sorts of frauds out there. They use fools to get their money. I am actually satisfied with my life cause I filter out the frauds and liars. If I were to trust a liar, I'd be a miserable person. My joy comes from others living a happy life without being abused or exploited by criminals. I love to make people aware of the fact that there are all kinds of frauds out there willing to take them for a ride and rip them of their hard earned money. Rich or poor, no one deserves to get ripped off. The poor work hard for a living and no one in their right mind would want to see them get ripped off. A criminal is a desperate coward who would even steal from a homeless man.

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER deal with Silverthorn and Lupolover, which has now changed to Cockburn and associates debt recovery.  Dealing with debt and having non stop phone calls and nasty letters is really hard on the nerves, but dealing with these idiots, makes in 10 X worse.  I started with Silverthorn in September 2011.  It is now October 2012, and they have not negotiated a single debt as of yet. To make things worse, they changed law firms, and every single thing that I had faxed, emailed, phoned, mailed etc. has to be done all over again.  The client reps sound like they are teenagfers, and you can literally hear all the other reps. in the background as if they are all in tiny cubicles just like telemarketers.  They never return calls or emails, and when you do get talking to them, they have no clue what they are doing.  I signed a contract that will not let me out.  I have paid them over 7000.00, and out of that they so far have about 2000.00 for creditors, and they are not done taking money for themselves yet.  Also, they make it sound very simple, but what they do not tell you is that you will probably still be sued in court.  Do not take what they are telling you at face value. I  could literally go on for ages, but as I type, I am getting more and more upset with myself for getting into this.  Just know that it is the worst possible idea in the world.  I don't know anything about any of the other debt groups, but this one is a very shadey bunch, and I am afraid of what is about to happen to me and my family in the future with this group.